I thought thunderbolt is a much faster connection which would allow lower latency and better overall performance of DAW's.

Maybe a tech can point out what thunderbolt will improve

The difference between Thunderbolt and USB2 is comparable to the difference to PCI express and USB2. This was discussed and measured a million times in the last years. Nothing new or special.

But the initial question above was a different one: "Would FFUC be able to use Thunderbolt and will it make a difference?"
And the correct answer was: No and no. With a Thunderbolt > USB/FireWire adapter it will be still a USB/FireWire interface.

best regards
Knut

TB won't surpass any of the PCIe HDSPe interfaces already available (and without the $500 "TB Tax" and $75 cable with a 2Meter limitation).  Granted - it would make a nice addition for a Laptop user, but if you really need TB's bandwidth capabilities for audio, then you're probably using a serious rack-mounted rig and not a consumer laptop with compromised chipsets/CPU's (compromised for power draw vs performance comapred to a proper desktop) for such critical tasks.  You seem to understand that TB uses the PCIe protocol - so it can't be any "Faster" than PCIe - if anything the bridge chips and numerous repeater-chips in the cable itself add some latency compared to PCIe - but not likely enough to affect audio latency.

Otherwise, the UCX via USB to a laptop will likely be within 0.5ms-1.0ms "round trip" compared to a RME TB interface that would cost about 2x as much.  An RME TB interface would obviously be more "Mac Centric" as PC's are slow to adopt the expensive TB chip (further reducing the pool of potential buyers and cranking up the cost even higher for RME to recoupe R&D costs).

The TB-to-PCIe chassis loaded with whatever RME HDSPe cards (and whatever other PCIe cards your heart desires) would seem to make more sense from RME's standpoint - and from an end-user's standpoint (mix and match, etc).  And that's something you can buy TODAY IIRC   Go for it! :-)

The Sonnet Express Pro chassis is like $799 - so it's only $300 more than what you're suggesting RME offer for $500 (and with less overall flexibility compared to an "open" PCIe chassis, and with a very small market of potential buyers).  And as you say, the Sonnet Chassis also opens up these limited "PCIe-less" devices to the PCIe standard as a bonus (not just an RME interface over TB, but any PCIe card you might need access to).  I'd say that benefit alone is worth the extra $300 for the Sonnet PCIe chassis.

iMac, MacMini, and Macbooks are all based around "compromised" laptop chipsets (they favor low-power draw over raw performance).  If you really need the INSANE bandwidth avaiable over PCIe (or TB) for Audio duties, you are likely better off with a desktop and its "full sized" chipsets and faster CPU's IMNSHO.  Otherwise, the USB UCX is (again) likely within 1ms of a TB system (round trip) for any of the "PCIe-less" Apple devices you mention.  Would you pay $500 (likely much more) for 1ms improvement in latency (USB UCX vs an RME TB Interface)?  That's a pretty small niche market IMO - and I can understand RME's reluctance on making a dedicated TB interface for the time being.

Maybe RME will re-consider this in a few more years once TB has gone through a few generation upgrades and has a larger install-base (as in: widespread PC adoption) and lower upfront cost (chipset and cable costs can come down quite a bit IMO).  In the meanwhile, I'll be more than happy to get my hands on the HDSPe-MADI-FX in my PCIe equipped desktop (upgrading from the HDSPe MADI)   I couldn't imagine the logistics of dealing with 64 tracks of MADI on a 13" Laptop, much less 3x that with the MADI-FX!  Otherwise, the USB UCX is likely ample for Laptop (and iMac systems based on compact Laptop components) applications...

Randyman... wrote:

The Sonnet Express Pro chassis is like $799 - so it's only $300 more than what you're suggesting RME offer for $500 (and with less overall flexibility compared to an "open" PCIe chassis, and with a very small market of potential buyers).  And as you say, the Sonnet Chassis also opens up these limited "PCIe-less" devices to the PCIe standard as a bonus (not just an RME interface over TB, but any PCIe card you might need access to).  I'd say that benefit alone is worth the extra $300 for the Sonnet PCIe chassis.

iMac, MacMini, and Macbooks are all based around "compromised" laptop chipsets (they favor low-power draw over raw performance).  If you really need the INSANE bandwidth avaiable over PCIe (or TB) for Audio duties, you are likely better off with a desktop and its "full sized" chipsets and faster CPU's IMNSHO.  Otherwise, the USB UCX is (again) likely within 1ms of a TB system (round trip) for any of the "PCIe-less" Apple devices you mention.  Would you pay $500 (likely much more) for 1ms improvement in latency (USB UCX vs an RME TB Interface)?  That's a pretty small niche market IMO - and I can understand RME's reluctance on making a dedicated TB interface for the time being.

Maybe RME will re-consider this in a few more years once TB has gone through a few generation upgrades and has a larger install-base (as in: widespread PC adoption) and lower upfront cost (chipset and cable costs can come down quite a bit IMO).  In the meanwhile, I'll be more than happy to get my hands on the HDSPe-MADI-FX in my PCIe equipped desktop (upgrading from the HDSPe MADI)   I couldn't imagine the logistics of dealing with 64 tracks of MADI on a 13" Laptop, much less 3x that with the MADI-FX!  Otherwise, the USB UCX is likely ample for Laptop (and iMac systems based on compact Laptop components) applications...

Spoken like a PC guy   Apogee has successfully made a lot of dough selling its Ensembles and Duets without ever even making them PC compatible.

Apple giveth and Apple taketh away. My guess is that PCI-e on the way out for Macs, period. I got rid of an older, slower Mac Pro Quad 2.66 n replaced it with a Mac Mini Quad Core i7 that runs circles around it for $1125, hooked up to a $1600 i7 PC slave I built and the tandem is very powerful and left me poised for the future.. My days of buying $5000 Mac Pro towers are over and a lot of Mac guys feel this way. And Mac or PC, make no mistake about it, laptops and smaller machines are where things are headed and the days of big towers with PCI-e slots are numbered IMHO.

UA, Avid, and others are already developing TB audio interfaces so clearly that "niche Market" is perceived as viable by them. And catering to "niche markets" can be quite profitable, asApogee has demonstrated.

I believe, there is a market for an RME TB interface and until RME can say to me, "Jay, those huge Logic Pro projects you are running will run at an equally low buffer, with equally high track counts and equal stability" and not a vague"close to" I think it would be wise.

But of course that is RME's call to make. I sure do love my HDSpe-AIO. It is a great interface.

OK, I am done.

I woud like to point out again that using an existing (or an upcoming) Thunderbolt to USB adapter the UCX and others are turned into a valid alternative to a unit that has TB directly inside. They are small, cost less than 200 bucks, and do not need power.

MC - Are you suggesting that using a UCX (USB) via a Thunderbolt-to-USB dongle would somehow surpass using the Intel Chipset's native USB Ports on Intel based computers?  I assumed the native Intel USB Ports were generally the best choice for the UCX, and I also assumed all Intel based computers have at least a few Intel USB Ports available.:cool: