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Topic: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

When the Babyface has been developed, Class Compliant mode or the usage as iPad companion was not on our Radar yet. That changed with the introduction of the CC mode for the UCX (see extra Tech Info). Now there were two problems:

1. The Babyface features automatic power on/off for the external power socket, steered by the presence of USB power. As the iPad delivers only around 20 mA, the external power will not get activated, and the one from the iPad is far too low to operate the Babyface (500 mA needed). In stand-alone mode, the unit simply doesn’t start at all.

2. Even worse: the Babyface has no internal memory that would allow it to boot into a specific state. It needs to be set by the driver and TotalMix FX from the computer to work correctly. No way to boot into a stand-alone mode, or a Class Compliant mode, and no way to store the settings that you just used in these modes.

There is a workaround for problem 1, and the magic formula for CC-operation is do-it-in-the-right-order. The first version of this post was based on always plugging the USB cable into the CCK which was already connected to the iPad. We had to learn that all you have to do is to change this order to first connect the CCK with the Babyface, then plug it into the iPad – and the Babyface will start without error message on the iPad. The long version: Connect Babyface to an external power supply, connect the USB cable to the BF, connect the CCK to this USB cable, then plug the CCK into the iPad.

For stand-alone mode use USB bus power instead of the external power supply. Simply plug the USB cable into any suitable USB power supply (like the charger for iPhone or iPad).

Ok, power problem solved. So what about the memory? The RME magicians had a vague idea: thanks to enough resources in the FPGA it might be possible to add a small processor, which then uses the existing flash memory (for the firmware) to store all the needed information in it – in realtime, and for booting. And after many months of developing HeadScratch ed: – it works :-)

Since firmware 200 the Babyface operates in three different modes: driver-based USB 2, stand-alone mode, and Class Compliant mode. The latter describes a standard that is natively supported by operating systems like Windows, Mac OSX and Linux. No proprietary drivers are required, the device will be directly recognized when CC mode is activated. Obviously, native features will be limited in comparison to those provided by the RME driver set. For example there will be no (Total) Mix and no effects.

The Class Compliant mode can be activated and deactivated by holding down the Select and Recall button while powering up the Babyface. The level meters will run up, confirming CC mode.

The Babyface provides the iPad with the professional analog I/O connections it lacks. Superb microphone preamps, in addition to professional balanced line outputs, and a hi-power headphone output that also excels with high impedance headphones. Plus gain and level adjustments, SPDIF and ADAT input and output, at up to 96 kHz and 24 bit (limited by the current iOS, 192 kHz already supported by the Babyface). And of course a Sysex-capable MIDI I/O.

Note that since iOS 5 multichannel recording is supported, and since iOS 6 multichannel playback as well. At this time only djay from Algoriddim supports more than one stereo output, but others like Auria are expected to follow soon.

All further information is found in the pdfs (german and english) that can be downloaded here:

http://www.rme-audio.de/download/cc_mode_babyface_e.pdf

http://www.rme-audio.de/download/cc_mode_babyface_d.pdf

!!!Third update 12/10/2012: firmware released, V 203!!!
http://www.rme-audio.de/download/fut_usb_win.zip

http://www.rme-audio.de/download/fut_usb_mac.zip

Have fun!

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Having had the chance to test CC mode already, I can confirm that it works very well. After long test runs at home, I used it to record three small concerts, with a Micstasy as preamp (this is where the BF currently beats the UCX in CC, digital connectivity works) and a UFX as backup recorder using an external USB drive.

I used Auria to record 8 tracks (there is an input matrix that will allow you to shift inputs, i.e. use channels 3-10 for an 8 track project), with convenient monitoring through the sophisticated mixer. Prior tests confirmed that Auria will indeed record flawlessly and in perfect sync for hours and hours, until memory runs full. Multitrack DAW is limited to 300 minutes for projects up to 8 tracks and 120 minutes beyond that, which is already a step up from earlier limitations.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

http://rme-audio.com/support/bfcc.jpg

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Great news I should ahd bought a babyface hmm. Is there any chance the fireface UC also gets CC?

4 (edited by panatrope 2012-11-17 00:04:02)

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Thank you for prioritising and delivering this facility.  For something that seems not to have been considered a possibility at the time of developing the BabyFace, it is a tribute to the RME designers and ingenuity to see it realised. Trying it out at the moment is difficult for me because the iXxxs deives that are targets for use are held by other members of the family.

Use with an iPhone (4 and above) is interesting in conjunction with a transmission program like luci Live (luci.eu) for field reporting (not just news but music broadcasts).   But powering in the field is a very important consideration.

I have previously mentioned a portable power source  and I have a Traveler Battery power Pack MPP 7400 (that is, 7400mAh at 5V) purchased about a year ago.  2 USB sockets for power output.  This seems suitable for the purpose as outlined by MC

But one statement above seems confusing,  Should it perhaps read:
"So when using this system, the iPad's USB connection, augmented by the battery power supply, can be used to power the Babyface!"

Being unable to try it out immediately I can't give any practical comment on its use at the moment.  But it has previously been stated that a problem could arise if, in an attempt to reduce the BabyFace drain on the netbook battery, the BabyFace were connected to a USB port, say on my netbook and the USB battery at the same time if there were differences in the USB voltage between the two.  So I want to make sure I understand the above statement.  It seems to rely on some properties of the Camera connector.  Let me paraphrase your original comments to see if I have understood correctly.   

The BabyFace needs USB power to start up correctly (but only for a short period of time).  The Camera Connector can only deliver 10mA, which is not enough on its own for BabyFace start up.  By connecting a USB battery (like the above) on the second USB plug of the BabyFace before plugging the USB connection into the BabyFace, it will then receive enough power to allow correct BabyFace start-up, and does not then need power from the iDevice's battery.  Because the Camera Connector does not permit power (charging) to flow from the USB battery to the iDevice, it will not put additional drain on the USB battery.   And if the USB battery voltage is slightly different from that from the iDevice, it will not cause a problem.

This is very useful, but please correct me if I am wrong.  Once again, thanks for a very welcome development

De gustibus - et sonus - non est disputandum

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Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

> Use with an iPhone (4 and above)

...requires you to Jailbreak your iPhone and use this software (not tested):

http://idroid.us/cydia-tweak-cameraconn … 0-2-1.html

> "So when using this system, the iPad's USB connection, augmented by the battery power supply, can be used to power the Babyface!"

I don't think so, but don't fully understand what you try to say.

> the BabyFace were connected to a USB port, say on my netbook and the USB battery at the same time if there were differences in the USB voltage between the two

This does not apply here, as there is no such connection. But even if: my tests with tons of power supplies (all USB = 5V), LiPo-USB-batteries and a notebook, everything connected at the same time, did not show any problems. In theory, when notebook USB power and battery collide, all that happens is that the battery gets charged...

Your rephrased paragraph is correct, but misses to mention the external power supply (to make everything perfectly clear).

This statement:

>> Even better: the Camera Connection Kit, which is mandatory to connect any USB audio interface to the iPad, prevents charging the iPad. So when using this system, the iPad's power supply can be used to power the Babyface!

could be better, yes. It just means that because you can not use the iPad's power supply when using the iPad with a CCK, that power supply is currently unused, and therefore free to be used for the Babyface (instead of lying around doing nothing). Ouch, need to put that into good english...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Great job!
I made a thread in Gearslutz (music computer board), so that folks over there would know.

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Super!

:-) cool :-D

Made a post on the Ableton Live forum.

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

I'm guessing this would work using a powered usb hub with the iPad? 

- I've now got to track down my camera connection kit.....my babyface snow matches my white iPad  well!

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Anouncement / Thread posted on the Auria forums.
This is great news. Thanks. :-)

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.

~ Albert Einstein

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Nice show of craftsmanship by the RME developers! wink

Did a quick test with a no-name clone camera-kit that came free with a iPad cover I bought. Simple stereo playback works once out of around two dozen connect/disconnect tries. This is most likely a fault of the cheap (as in free) camera-kit.

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

That sounds awsome! Can't wait to try it on my linux machine.

Android OSC-Controller with TotalMixFX templates: http://osc-commander.com/

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Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Burtan wrote:

That sounds awsome! Can't wait to try it on my linux machine.

There's a bug in the ALSA driver that prevents the unit from being properly detected. You can fix this by compiling the ALSA driver yourself.
http://www.mail-archive.com/alsa-user@l … 28935.html
I've tested it with Arch linux. Hope it will be fixed in 1.0.27. If you have any questions concerning BF+Linux I suggest a separate thread in the Linux section of this forum.
-Max

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

(this is where the BF currently beats the UCX in CC, digital connectivity works)

How come ?
A big advertising thing with the UCX was to be able to use it with Ipad.
And still the big improvements are first made on the babyface before the Fireface UCX ... (it's still very cool for babyface) ...

I bought an UCX cause i thought it would be the device you'll work on first with Ipad, and i really need SPDIF/ADAT.
Hope you can fix this quickly.

Good luck !

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Penguino wrote:

(this is where the BF currently beats the UCX in CC, digital connectivity works)

How come ?
A big advertising thing with the UCX was to be able to use it with Ipad.
And still the big improvements are first made on the babyface before the Fireface UCX ... (it's still very cool for babyface) ...

I bought an UCX cause i thought it would be the device you'll work on first with Ipad, and i really need SPDIF/ADAT.
Hope you can fix this quickly.

Good luck !

Just to let you know.
In this moment I am using UCX, CC mode and SPDIF Out... works great

Cheers, a happy UCX, CC mode and digital connectivity user

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

All I can say is !!! WELL DONE! This is great!

----------------
Matt McKenzie-Smith
----------------

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Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Thanks a lot everyone for the overwhelming feedback that we got, also outside the forum, and that on a weekend! I reworked and reuploaded the english pdf, edited the text of the first post (hope Panatrope likes it now), and also translated it to german, see new link in first post.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Just brilliant news! Thank you for your work and ingenuity! This level of ongoing-support is what makes RME the only serious game in town.

18 (edited by Leecky 2012-11-20 00:22:07)

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

As a Babyface owner I think this is stunning. I got the Babyface when it first arrive around two years ago. When most manufacturers are thinking of ending the line or bringing out the sequel these guys are adding functionality (for free smile ). Brilliant and thank you very much.

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Brilliant job, guys!  I assume CC-compliance is coming soon to UFX?

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Quick question regarding using an external mobile battery pack for main source of BF power, as you suggested above - would there be any advantage (or even would it damage the BF) to use a 2A high power output as opposed to 1A? I'm specifically thinking in terms of would it help to give it more juice if phantom power was needed, for example.

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

MC wrote:

1. The Babyface features automatic power on/off for the external power socket, steered by the presence of USB power. As the iPad delivers only around 10 mA, the external power will not get activated – and the one from the iPad is far too low to operate the Babyface (500 mA needed).

No, there is no benefit to higher amp rating. Should not cause any problem either, the unit only draws what it needs.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

ok - thanks jeff

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Is there an easy way to start it in stand alone mode without a PC or iPad?

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Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Connect the USB cable to a USB power supply or rechargable USB battery. It's that easy.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Important Update:

The information in the first post and the pdfs have been updated. It seems as using the Babyface with the iPad is much easier than we thought. We were just unlucky to always connect the unit in the wrong order. If done correctly there is no need to use more than the external power supply. For more (and other) details please re-download the pdfs from the first post.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Thank you...this is awesome!

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Great news !
I related this annoucement on Audiofanzine french forums.

Intel i7 980X | 12Go | Win7 x64
RME Babyface Pro (previously: Multiface, Fireface 800 & Babyface)

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Hello MC,

how do you like this device? It supplies power (5 V, 1 A) directly through the USB B-connection. It seems to be the perfect power supply for the Babyface in cc-mode or for stand-alone use.

http://www.aqvox.com/webpics/USB-Power_2_mt.jpg

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Love the plug!!

Now replace the wall-wart with a 5v battery supply - ecstacy!

De gustibus - et sonus - non est disputandum

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Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Yes, there are several ways to do it. You will find that in the Auria forum they usually recommend powered USB hubs - which most probably works as well with the Babyface. But the above powered USB B connector is quite nice :-)

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Experimented last night using BF in standalone (GumPlus battery for power) connected to Sony PCM D50 over optical as a phantom powered XLR front end. Really elegant setup that works beautifully! Can't tell you how happy I am about this development - you've really outdone yourselves!

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Stand alone mode means too we can use the Babyface to feed directly an external recorder with digital in without any pc ?

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Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Of course.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Woah, I want to express how I feel about this but I don't want to use profane language.

THIS IS AMAZING.  I am typing this from my Linux machine thinking damn, I wish I could use my babyface with linux instead of just my macbook air.  Oh and my iPad.

Wow. wow.  No time to try this since I have work in the morning, but this is hugely exciting.

-r

PS wow.

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Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Firmware 201 has now  been released on our website. This one handles Dim/Recall correctly in DAW mode (only affecting output 1/2) and Copy mode (also affecting 3/4).

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

THX, Great NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS IS AMAZING!!! :-O:-O:-O

Thank you RME!!!

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

This is beautiful.

Thank you very much :-)

[img align=L]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UvFBKAQt57o/ULVEgWSor7I/AAAAAAAAA8Y/qryPM-QM_FI/s624/IMG_0705.jpg[/img]

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Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Wondering when the first Lightning to Lightning extender cable will be available :-)

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

39 (edited by panatrope 2012-11-28 04:01:30)

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

A picture is worth a thousand words.   (Well, at least two hundred, by my count ....  whose name is Moriarty).

De gustibus - et sonus - non est disputandum

40 (edited by envelope 2012-11-28 17:13:21)

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Yeah, I did read the pdf before even upgrading the firmware. I enjoy reading documentations, and this one gave a really nice feeling to read. Pure joy.

From the PDF:

You might get tempted to not use any external power supply at all. Indeed the Babyface runs bus powered via typical USB power supplies quite well.  Unfortunately some current intensive situations like switching phantom power on, or plugging a condenser mic into the already powered mic input, can cause a communication dropout. It seems like the spike of drawn current is detected by the iPad and causes it to shortly disable the CC-device. Therefore we strongly recommend to always use a stable external power supply. Then such effects do not show up with the iPad.

Dominic, that arrangement should work for you too, as there is no mic attached to the babyface. The cabling is obviously far from ideal, but I set that for a quick test as soon as I got home, just to see it working. A simple playback test. First song I heard? What the world needs now, by Burt Bacharach. :-)

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

No harm using a third-party device with the same specs... 9-12V, 2 A, + on the pin for the BF.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

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Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

And you also missed the part about the 'USB-extender'. That's why I am waiting for the first China Lightning extender cable, that might work like the existing Dock extender cables - better than a USB extension.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

any ideas?

i set up my ipad and babyface like it is said in the manual. ipad recognises babyface only one out of thirty times. when the volumebuttons of ipad stop to work ipad freezes shortly afterwards and i have to force a shutdown to make it work again.

i use the original cck
usb cable from babyface
tried it with ipad usb charger and mobile battery pack and active usb hub


best regards

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Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Use an external power supply for the Babyface

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

The new firmware 203 turns the flashing Instrument input LED into a constantly, but dimmed lit LED. Mac users can enjoy the Echo/Reverb again, it was distorted since v200.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Psyk wrote:
MC wrote:

You are not in CC mode, but in normal operation. Switch the input in TotalMix FX as described in the manual.

In CC mode everything works fine, but in normal mode, orange dot on the bottom of the right channel, just keeps on blinking, i am having trouble finding an old firmware on your support page to roll it back, if someone can be so kind and paste me a link here, i would be very grateful smile

Thanks!
Ivan

@Psyk:
I had the same confusion when I upgraded some time ago, and ends up downgrading because i thought the flashing light means the baby face is malfunctioning. Thanks to this thread I now know it is not, and yes, it is in the manual, but it is not immediately obvious to my impatient old eyes.

So, Psyk: The flashing simply means, that the input 2 is set to high impedance (Hi-Z) which is the best setting to connect for instance electric guitars. If you want to stop the flashing, you simply change the setting back to "normal". One of the ways to do that is in TotalMix:

1. Connect your computer with TotalMix to Babyface
2. In TotalMix, click on the spanner icon on channel 2, to open the extra pane
3. In the extra pane, click on the button "Inst" to turn it off. The flashing should stop. You can of course swicht "Inst" on again, to see the flashing start again.
4. Leave it on or off, as your prefer.

And if you update to version 203, the flashing led will now be a dimmed one, I see in post 63. That may make it look less alarming :-)

BR, Anders

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

But what I actually came here to say is: THANK YOU, RME! :-)

You are an incredible bunch of people: Not just getting the idea, but actually spending time getting it to work, bending the rules and finding ways to do it - and then giving it to us all for free. That is how you maintain customers! That, and having such good products in the first place. My 4 year old laptop runs audio on 7ms latency, next to nothing....

Thanks again!
Anders

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Andreas,

Thank you for your help and patience! Problem solved wink

I really read up that manual in a big hurry, lack of time, lately.... :-/

Thank you once again,
Best regards!
Ivan

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

Genius at Work!

Genial das ihr das gemacht habt, jetzt brauche ich glatt 2 Babyfaces ;-) ...

Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)

THANK YOU !
THANK YOU !
THANK YOU !
RME-AUDIO is just an amazing company.
I do not work for them, and have no association with them other than as a customer.
i have owned a fireface 800 and octopre for years and neve r had so much of a clitch.
then bought a babyface last year for my macbook pro, and it's been amazing even at low latency on usb, much to my amazement.
Now you've made the babyface work with my ipad 3.
You are an example to all manufacturers with your customer support.
Simply, you deserve to be where you are: At the top of the Digital audio tree.

I just wish software designers could just follow your example.