• ramses
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Topic: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

Question to RME ..

It seems that Microsoft optimized / redesigned some audio / midi subsystems in Windows 10.

http://www.gearnews.de/de/windows-10-be … -features/

Does the new audio core have positive impact on RME drivers, so that eventually lower latencies can be expected ?

Or some other news from RME in that regards which you can already share with us on forum ?

That would be interesting, many thanks upfront.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2010-07-31
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Re: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

Until it hits, there is no-one that will really know how it will go.

All the previews that have been released so far are no reliable indication of what the release version will do, as they have been more about getting usage telemetry data for MS, and so may have some deliberate idiosyncrasies to help them examine marginal conditions.

All the audio software and hardware manufacturers will have been doing testing on all those previews, but will not be reasonably sure of stability until just before release day.

On music hiatus, so RMEs have gone to homes where others can enjoy them.

3 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

Using Windows 10 in our lab we did not notice any change in performance or minimal buffer size.

Note that according to that article the changes affect Windows own audio (WDM etc, not ASIO).

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • Registered: 2007-05-09
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Re: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

What about the Multiclient MIDI stuff?

5 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

Our driver is multiclient anyway...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • ramses
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Re: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

MC wrote:

Using Windows 10 in our lab we did not notice any change in performance or minimal buffer size.

Note that according to that article the changes affect Windows own audio (WDM etc, not ASIO).

Ok, thanks Matthias.

Will your driver benefit from the new audio core, where i.e. audio processes would reside on another CPU core than i.e. Bluetooth, WLAN drivers ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

7 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

That would be a general change affecting all drivers without changing anything in the driver - and therefore most probably does not help ASIO but (again) WDM audio only.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • ramses
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Re: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

Ah, you mean a general change on OS task scheduler level, but for this the task scheduler needs to have knowledge about, which driver have to deal with audio ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

9 Reply by brokenmatt (edited by brokenmatt 2015-07-30 21:45:43)

  • Registered: 2015-07-30
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Re: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

Hey Matthias,

just registered to let you know your thinking might be off a little on this. Worth looking into Audio Core Isolation.

The head of audio developments in windows 10 (who is running a thread on gearsluts) confirmed that Audio Core Isolation is opt in, your drivers will see no benefit from it unless you opt in with your driver.

Maybe reach out to microsoft for more info. From what I read its restricted to one core at the mo for the drivers (ASIO or not but thats just the start)

Matt S

10 Reply by MC

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Re: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

> The head of audio developments in windows 10

You might want to to re-read that thread to find out the exact position of that guy...

It seems to me it is not the ASIO driver, but the ASIO engine (the DAW) which has to do such things. Anyway, time will tell.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2015-07-30
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Re: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

Well I will leave it to you guys to check all that out, I was just paraphrasing as it seemed you might have thought there was no opportunitys to be had. That said hes the one doing all the speechs and presentations so I guess microsoft give him some trust.

  • ramses
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Re: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

According to this german article the WASAPI latency shall not be that satisfactory.
http://www.gearnews.de/de/windows-10-fi … ers-erste/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

13 Reply by Frekk (edited by Frekk 2015-08-01 12:32:34)

  • Frekk
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Re: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

And interesting observation I made on Windows 10 using Babyface With cubase is that i had to adjust the samplesettings to 96 samples instead of 46 sample. Win 8 i was able to run With 48 samples without any hiccups.

The effect it had was that when i used the mouse to Select/edit/cut Waves and midi files it added disturbance to the sound when playing back the recorded audio. As soon as i let og of the mouse the disturbance stopped.  (Number of tracks was only 4).

Some specs on the mahcine:

Asus p8z77 - V Pro
i7 3770k
16 GB ram
SSD Drives
Windows 10 pro

  • Registered: 2010-07-17
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Re: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

Hmmm...
Frekk:
Are all drivers (gaphics, HW, MB, etc...) W10 versions?
Are all services and processes the same?
Bios setup stuff (including is there a W10 Bios fo that matter)?
so many variables need to be checked to fuily compare...

SamProX23 Suite-RME UFX+,FF800;X-Touch,21" Acer Touch,ASUS ROG G750JH-DB71-Win8,MSSurfbook-Win10
  • ramses
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Re: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

I make the upgrade today to get the free key and to look how it works, but changed back to Win 7.
The Win 10 management menues are too much tablet oriented and there are some things which I really dislike.
Although Startup menue has been brought back its still crippled.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

16 Reply by Frekk (edited by Frekk 2015-08-01 23:28:19)

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Re: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

Lindsey wrote:

Hmmm...
Frekk:
Are all drivers (gaphics, HW, MB, etc...) W10 versions?
Are all services and processes the same?
Bios setup stuff (including is there a W10 Bios fo that matter)?
so many variables need to be checked to fuily compare...

Yeah. A lot of variables.

I know graphic gard, and audio card has the latest, and Windows 10 ready driver. However there are more that probably needs to be tweaked. I heard there will be a large update for Windows 10 in near furture (Next week). Will see what happens then. For now it seems to work ok With 96 samples so im not stressing out that i cant get 46.

Steinberg also reccomended their users to wait with the upgrade. They did discover some issues in Cubase when running on Windows 10. They are working on it.

Just have to wait and see smile

17 Reply by Raphie (edited by Raphie 2015-08-02 06:04:20)

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Re: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

I have EXACTLY this issue with my madifx 2.05 driver. Scrolling my mouswheel,  floods mouse movement in some way, mouse gets laggy and executes movements later and triggers maschinegun rattling bursts through the madifx windows speaker output.
I had this problem both after the upgrade and the clean install afterwards, behaviour seems simmilar to interupt conflictt, but both mouse usb, videocard and madifx are on 3 different IRQ!'s
5/6/7, identical to the previous windows 7/8/8.1 ibstallls which worked flawless for many years.
It's most appearant innthe new EDGE browser and new MAIL app.
Overall the system doesn't feel as "immediate" as win 8.1 did

Frekk wrote:

And interesting observation I made on Windows 10 using Babyface With cubase is that i had to adjust the samplesettings to 96 samples instead of 46 sample. Win 8 i was able to run With 48 samples without any hiccups.

The effect it had was that when i used the mouse to Select/edit/cut Waves and midi files it added disturbance to the sound when playing back the recorded audio. As soon as i let og of the mouse the disturbance stopped.  (Number of tracks was only 4).

Some specs on the mahcine:

Asus p8z77 - V Pro
i7 3770k
16 GB ram
SSD Drives
Windows 10 pro

www.analoguemastering.com

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  • Registered: 2015-08-21
  • Posts: 1

Re: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

Hi dear RME users,

I have exactly the same issue than Frekk and Raphie on my Asus Notebook with my (lovely) Babyface. I'm a Cubase user and everything worked perfectly till I updated my laptop to Windows 10. I worked at low latency with a lot of audio tracks, VSTi and various plugins @88.2 khz without any problem under W8.1... Now I can't move my mouse without hearing crackles with a single audio track and I have to double the buffer size on my old project !!! :-(
I have updated Babyface driver and tryed many things but nothing works.
I'm far of a computer expert but I guess Windows USB 3.0 driver is the key... Is there other users who made the same "interesting observation" ? Any idea to fix it ?

Thanks & Best regards,

Some specs on the laptop :
ASUS N550JV
i7 4700HQ
6GB RAM
W10 Family

19 Reply by panatrope (edited by panatrope 2015-08-23 03:53:47)

  • From: Melbourne, Australia
  • Registered: 2007-05-16
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Re: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

Second hand info, but a colleague of mine literate in both recording and IT, and with whom I worked recently,  outlined some dissatisfaction with degraded USB handling audiowise in Windows 10 (and also Windows 8).  Consequently he has elected to remain on W7 for the time being. I can seek further and better particulars if there is an interest.

FWIW

Follow-up: Most of the problem was with files and particular with SD devices.  This issue has now been confirmed as an W10 Encrytpted File System issue between SD and Microsoft, as reported in GS.

Still interested in any USB Audio issues in W10

De gustibus - et sonus - non est disputandum
  • Registered: 2014-07-11
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Re: Windows 10 .. any advantages ?

In general USB audio devices work in Windows 10 just like they did in 7 or 8. Usually with the exact same drivers. If we were to use MS's traditional version numbering Windows 7 would be Windows NT 6.1 and 10 would be 6.4. They are minor revisions, not major changes.

In terms of audio performance, there's not a ton of data but Cakewalk found that 10 generally seems to be a bit faster http://blog.cakewalk.com/sonar-performa … indows-10/. They are using a TASCAM interface (Gibson owns Cakewalk and TASCAM) and the test is fairly simple, but it gives you some idea.

In my own use of 10 is has been good. No issues so far, DPC latency is good, etc, etc. It's nothing to get super excited about, but it works well and I wouldn't hesitate to try it.