Topic: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

If i use my UFX or UC with the new MacBook Pro I either have to connect it before turning it on, or first plug the USB C side in and then the USB B side. Otherwise it won't connect/sync with the computer. Same behaviour with both interfaces. All other devices/interfaces work as usual. I tested the USB C / A Adapter and two USB C USB B cables. So it looks like this has something to do with the RME gear. Is there anyone experiencing the same issues? Or are you at RME familiar with that and there might be a firmware update to get rid of that behaviour?

2 (edited by Plsmk 2017-02-14 23:54:48)

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

I am having the exact same problem as sschoepe. On top of that my Mackook Pro sometimes freezes or reboots when plugging in the UFX or when switching it on and off.

My configuration:

MacBook Pro 2016
macOS Sierra
RME UFX connected with USB B to USB C adapter from Apple
Latest RME drivers and firmware used

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

What does Apple say about the rebooting?

From my corner, this sounds like an Apple problem. I mean, if I had a Mac that rebooted when connecting a known working USB device, I'd want to exchange that machine.

Unfortunately, there seem to be many problems with USB-C. Apple even had to change their own charger. Which they did, silently.

And I wish I had at least some advice. But none of the workarounds seem to work for every case.

The one thing I didn't see mentioned, is using an external power supply for the UC and UFX. But that's so basic, I suppose you've tried that?

MB Pro - 2 X FireFace 400, FF800 & DigiFace USB
ADAT gear: Korg, Behri, Fostex, Alesis...

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

I am in fact using an external power supply. That doesn´t cure the issue.

5 (edited by Plsmk 2017-02-15 23:18:23)

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

Any comment from RME on that?

6

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

The RME USB driver gets notified from the OS when an RME device is plugged in. No notice - nothing will happen. This is outside of RME's influence.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

Bit of an old thread but I wanted to add to it. My UFX sometimes does not show up and I have to turn it on and off. Other times if I turn it off suddenly my wireless mouse stops working. That one is weird since the mouse is in a different USB-C spot. Lastly on super intense sessions the UFX will lose clock sync frequently and randomly. Its totally fine on less intense sessions. Never had this issue on my 9 year old Mac.

These days Ill record with the UFX and, if I am using headphones, I'll just use the internal sound card because its so frustrating to have to keep reselecting the sound card in the Studio one Preferences to get the clock to sync again. I've had multiple discussions with Presonus and RME. Both mostly have blamed the other and given a few things to try. Nothing worked so I am stuck hoping that maybe its an apple issue that will be fixed. Definitely puts a real damper on using this new Mac.

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

I second that. This is very annoying. The very reason I have been using RME + Apple for over 15 years is that I never had to worry about the audio hardware (not) getting detected by the computer. And now this ...

I wonder if the problem is the same with the new UFX+?

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

Another observation: When my Macbook goes into sleep mode, after waking it up the RME device is not detected any more. In this case unplugging and plugging in again and/or restarting the UFX again does not help. The only way for the Macbook to detect the UFX again is to restart the computer.

10

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

We would like to further investigate if there are still issues although we are now on 10.12.5. For that it would be most helpful if anyone still having problems mentions the exact model of MacBook, the current OS X version, the driver version and model of RME interface, and which interface format is used for connection. Thanks.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

11 (edited by Helmut Crab 2017-06-08 14:13:37)

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

I've checked Sierra's updates and unless i've missed it there have been non regarding usb to usb-c functunality. The only audio related update i noticed is 10.12.5 with " Fixes an issue where audio may stutter when played through USB headphones "

Is this possibly a usb-c hardware design issue ( or just software ) ?

EDIT :
Sorry but how can i change my user name please ? It was mean't to say Helmut Crab but i messed it up.

Thanks for sorting that Matthias ! cheers

12 (edited by Plsmk 2017-06-09 18:53:54)

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

Hi Matthias, I appreciate you are looking into this. My configuration is

- Mac OS Version 10.12.5 (latest version)
- Macbook Pro 15 Inch from Late 2016 (latest design)
- Fireface UFX (1st Generation) with latest drivers connected via USB2 to USB-C cable

The problems are still the same:

- Macbook does not detect the UFX when the UFX is already switched (powered) on before connecting it to the Macbook. Switching the UFX off and on again while it is connected to the Macbook lets the Macbook detect the UFX
- Disconnecting the USB-C cable that connects the UFX and the Macbook has the following effect: The Macbook´s touchbar stops working (it´s all black) and shutting down the Macbook is not possible any more (shut down freehzes with a black screen and the mouse pointer on it). The only way to then restart the Macbook is by holding the power button for a few seconds for a hard reboot. There is no other way to have the Macbook detect the UFX again than this hard reboot method. The problem always occurs when disconnecting the USB-C cable from the Macbook, independent from the UFX switched on or off when disconnecting the cable.

I have tried different USB cables (with and without adapter) but the problem remained the same. Also I have tried connecting/disconnecting other devices via USB-C such as external hard drives and they all worked just fine.

Matthias, please let me know if there is anything else I can do help solve this issue

13

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

Thanks for the details. Exact firmware version of the UFX, please?

We have done tons of tests with our touchbar Macbook but none of our interfaces was able to crash the touchbar, nor showed any detection problems, nor sleep/wakeup problems.

As mentioned before the log of the console might have useful info when this happens.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

Firmware is up to date, revision 357.

15

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

Nope. 357 163 344, and 163 should be shown upon boot on the display.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

Yes, that´s what I meant: 357 163 344, and 163

17

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

Plmsk: Please tell us which CPU and which Graphics your model has. Also: did you try all USB-C ports? Which one is the one you usually use?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

MacBook Pro (15 Zoll, 2016)
2,7 GHz Intel Core i7
16 GB 2133 MHz LPDDR3
Radeon Pro 455 2048 MB
Intel HD Graphics 530 1536 MB

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

I am mostly using one of the two USB-C Ports on the left side. I haven´t fully tested the other ones

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

Above you wrote: "We have done tons of tests with our touchbar Macbook but none of our interfaces was able to crash the touchbar, nor showed any detection problems, nor sleep/wakeup problems."

I am considering replacing a 2012 MacBook Pro with the 2017 model but was told a Thunderbolt 3 to USB-B connection to the original UFX (not UFX+) may cause problems, especially when recording more than a few tracks.

Does your statement mean that you rarely have encountered such problems and that those on this thread are unusual or is there more I should know? If I have misunderstood, please clarify and explain any fixes. I want to understand beyond any doubt before I invest in a new computer.

Thank you,

Russ
WESTLAKE RECORDS

21

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

> Thunderbolt 3 to USB-B connection to the original UFX (not UFX+) may cause problems

Not that I know of. And USB 2 / UFX so far worked without a problem. We are currently examining a USB3 high channel count transfer problem, but that is a different topic.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

22 (edited by Russ 2017-06-15 03:30:40)

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

Thank you very much for your answer.

Yesterday somebody at Apple said there might be a problem when recording more than three or four tracks because of the difference in bandwidth between Thunderbolt 3/USB-C on the 2017 MacBook Pro and the USB port in the back of the first generation UFX. Could that be related to the high channel count problem you just referred to? And, even if there is some relationship, would I be correct in understanding that it isn't relevant to my earlier question?

23

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

> Yesterday somebody at Apple said there might be a problem when recording more than three or four tracks because of the difference in bandwidth between Thunderbolt 3/USB-C on the 2017 MacBook Pro and the USB port in the back of the first generation UFX

IMHO that is just utter nonsense.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

Thank you again, Matthias. Your answers have been a great help to me and I very much appreciate your taking the time to reply.

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

Plsmk wrote:

I am mostly using one of the two USB-C Ports on the left side. I haven´t fully tested the other ones

Did these issues get sorted ?

If not, As Matthias said, did you find the entries in the log of the console when they occur and pass them on to RME  ?

Its worth a try...

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

No work, Fireface UC and Macbook Pro 2017... With iMac yes, Macbook pro nop.

Solution?

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

What is nonsense is that after 6 months you continue selling cards that do not work.

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

futuredada wrote:

What is nonsense is that after 6 months you continue selling cards that do not work.

Or Apple performing genious changes to their system ...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

29

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

We have several MacBook Pro 2016 models and they all work with the Fireface UC.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

futuredada wrote:

No work, Fireface UC and Macbook Pro 2017... With iMac yes, Macbook pro nop.

Solution?

Is that with USB 3 ports on iMac or usb-c  please ?

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

MC wrote:

We have several MacBook Pro 2016 models and they all work with the Fireface UC.


Hi MC, I've had two MacBook Pro 2016 models crash op stage with the Fireface UC earlier this year.
The 2017 which I received today also doesn't work as expected. When unplugging the USB-C cable, I have to turn Off/On the Fireface UC to get a connection again. My 2014 MBP had no issues disconnecting and reconnecting the USB cables, which is essential when you're live on stage and something gets unplugged.

I'm also worried crashing my laptop again while playing Traktor with the Fireface UC.

I love the sound card to bits, but I'm afraid I have to switch if things are not working.

Best, Joris.

32

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

> I've had two MacBook Pro 2016 models crash op stage with the Fireface UC earlier this year.

I would think that the latest Sierra updates might fix or prevent this kind of issue (I have not seen or heard from crashes in normal operation, though).

> When unplugging the USB-C cable, I have to turn Off/On the Fireface UC to get a connection again

We are still discussing this effect with Apple. Failed Plug&Play might have the same root cause as the crash of the Touchbar discussed in another thread.

P&P might be improved by using a different than the original Apple USB-C to USB adapter. A third party adapter with more than one USB port seems not to trigger this effect if the audio interface is removed from the adapter's USB port instead of removing the USB-C adapter with connected audio interface from the MacBook (most probably because such an adapter has another hub inside).

You can also try the new drivers 3.03 (2.21) released yesterday.

BTW, these problems do not happen for everyone. But if they show up then one usually is able to reproduce them with devices of other manufacturers as well.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

33

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

We have a firmware update which should solve the USB 2 detection/recognition problems of Babyface, Fireface UC, UCX, UFX, UFX II and 802 with the latest Apple MacBooks. Please download here and try:

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/fu … ac_142.zip

or

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/fu … ac_142.zip

Note: this update ONLY addresses the problem that the interface is not recognized when the USB-C adapter is plugged into the MacBook while the interface is already connected to said adapter. It might also solve recognition issues after sleep, as they might have the same root cause, or when powering up with the adapter already plugged in.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

I often see what could (or might not) be overlapping updates on the RME site. If others are as confused as I am, perhaps you could answer a simple question:

Do you advise installing both usb_mac_142 and new drivers 3.03?

Thank you in advance.

35

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

Both are completely independent. One is a firmware, the other a driver. The driver is an offícial release on the website, the firmware is a test version only found in the forum.

So there is no overlap at all.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

36

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

We have a firmware update which should solve the USB 2 detection/recognition problems of Babyface, Fireface UC, UCX, UFX, UFX II and 802 with the latest Apple MacBooks. Please download here and try:

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/fu … ac_142.zip

or

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/fut_ma … ac_142.zip

Note: this update ONLY addresses the problem that the interface is not recognized when the USB-C adapter is plugged into the MacBook while the interface is already connected to said adapter. It might also solve recognition issues after sleep, as they might have the same root cause, or when powering up with the adapter already plugged in.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

37 (edited by Helmut Crab 2017-07-08 17:05:12)

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

MC wrote:

We have a firmware update which should solve the USB 2 detection/recognition problems of Babyface, Fireface UC, UCX, UFX, UFX II and 802 with the latest Apple MacBooks. Please download here and try:

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/fu … ac_142.zip

or

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/fu … ac_142.zip

Note: this update ONLY addresses the problem that the interface is not recognized when the USB-C adapter is plugged into the MacBook while the interface is already connected to said adapter. It might also solve recognition issues after sleep, as they might have the same root cause, or when powering up with the adapter already plugged in.

Thats great news, thanks Matthias !

Can people with these issues let us know if this update helps with above issues please ( for those of us who also want to upgrade to usb-c mbp's . )

cheers

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

Thank you for the clarification and prompt response.

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

Does the FW update apply to Babyface Pro? I also have the disconnection problems with Sierra 10.12.5.

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

BTW I do realise FW update is not targeting disconnection fault, just wanted to see if it helped though. The disconnection fault often necessitates me to hard reset my MacBook Pro 2016 by holding the power button which is a real pain.

41

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

In our opinion the disconnect problem is an OS problem, that we reproduced with other manufacturer's devices as well. We have informed Apple and provided detailed log files. Not much more we can do...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

MC wrote:

In our opinion the disconnect problem is an OS problem, that we reproduced with other manufacturer's devices as well. We have informed Apple and provided detailed log files. Not much more we can do...

Hi Matthias,

I have had 3 gigs last weekend with the NI Audio 10 MK2 USB soundcard, which is Plug and Play proof and has shown no issues with audio.
I think that means that the USB-C ports should potentially be compatible with RME USB interfaces as well.
I'm hoping that in the near future there will be a solution to the current problems. The latest drivers haven't been working for my MacBook Pro 2017 setup unfortunately.

Best, Joris.

43 (edited by diogoc 2017-08-04 06:04:00)

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

Which adapters (or hubs) are you guys using for USB-C to USB2? Those OTGs with a female USB2 port or USB-C to USB-2 "printer" cable?

Thanks!

44

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

I'm also following this thread to find out which adapters, cables and docks are the best for 2017 macbook pro's.

I'm looking to replace my mid 2012 macbook with a new one and trying to figure out what to get.. I use the computer for live and studio work with two ufx's and one ucx (not at the same time). Currently i'm looking at Apple USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter (HDMI), Apple USB-C - USB adapter, Satechi/Hyperdrive/Anker small adapter/hubs and OWC/Belkin dock, and also thought if just a simple "printer" cable for connecting my D-Link USB-hub to USB-C would work. D-link hub is only used for midi controllers, I'm intending to connect main audio interface "straight" to the computer.

45 (edited by sschoepe 2017-09-08 15:00:39)

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

Better late than never: Firmware update resolved the connection problems mentioned in the opening post for me.
MBP with Touch Bar + UFX.
Thanks!

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

How have you guys updated the firmware. As I only have a usb c  mac now and the firmware update program only runs on USB i have no way of upgrading it. sad

47

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

Point is that the USB fix is not relevant for a TB user, so you don't need to upgrade right now.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

48 (edited by Helmut Crab 2017-09-17 15:38:06)

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

MC wrote:

Point is that the USB fix is not relevant for a TB user, so you don't need to upgrade right now.

Sorry, i am confused here. I thought the firmware upgrade was to adresss the usb-c touch bar mbp connection issue ( mentioned to fix this by Sschoepe above ) ?

do you need a usb mac for firmware install ?

cheers

49

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

octimme does not have a USB-C to USB2/3 adapter, otherwise he would have updated already. But as he is using his UFX+ he must have the USB-C to TB adapter, so he is using the UFX+ via Thunderbolt...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: UFX / UC + USB C / Macbook Pro 2016

MC wrote:

octiomme does not have a USB-C to USB2/3 adapter, otherwise he would have updated already. But as he is using his UFX+ he must have the USB-C to TB adapter, so he is using the UFX+ via Thunderbolt...

Thanks very much for explaining that MC. I understand.

cheers