1 Topic by Gordon cole (edited by Gordon cole 2017-09-13 11:18:15)

  • Registered: 2017-08-18
  • Posts: 24

Topic: Routing fx pedals and instruments into the UCX and TotalMix FX

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l9llb5n6hpx9h … x.jpg?dl=0

Hi there, i have a few ways i would like to get into the UCX for different amp/guitar tones etc

I have a few methods i need help carving out:
method 1
#1 and #4
to get a mix of the mic'd instrument and then be able to patch the fx pedal chain#4 into totalmix onto #1

Method 2
#2
I get a tone from the pickups in my instrument i would rather leave out of the mix but maybe i could mix #1, #2 and #4 and blend.

Method 3
#3 and #4
to get the tone out of the amp but also have the fx pedals running into the UXC and patched to the amp mic input in Totalmix fx.

My main question is regarding #4. Is it possible to just input a chain of 4-5 pedals into say balanced input 5 and route them to whatever other inputs i have going on in totalmix fx?? #4 won't have an instrument going through it physically, but when i patch #4 to other inputs, it should work??

Sorry id there's no picture I've tried a couple of times.

Any help will be great thank you

G.Cole

  • ramses
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Re: Routing fx pedals and instruments into the UCX and TotalMix FX

> [img]/Users/admin/Downloads/set up for totalmix fx.jpg[/img]

How shall this work ?!?!

Put it on the cloud (dropbox or similar) and then post the link ... Nobody has direct access to the filesystem of your system.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2017-08-20
  • Posts: 16

Re: Routing fx pedals and instruments into the UCX and TotalMix FX

Where is your output to the FX chain?

I have the UFX, and I route an output to my pedal board, and then the return of the pedal board back into the UFX. This way, I can route the pedals through the front end of an amp, or through the effects loop just by recalling one of the Mix presets.

  • Registered: 2017-08-18
  • Posts: 24

Re: Routing fx pedals and instruments into the UCX and TotalMix FX

There is an fx LR return and mono send on the back of my amp? never used them..

Can i come out of the UCX and back in to the UCX (creating a loop) or Go straight in (as a chain) without the amp?

Sorry you may have to elaborate a little here. Im a learner, but slowly grasping the concept yikes

ghostman1846 wrote:

Where is your output to the FX chain?

I have the UFX, and I route an output to my pedal board, and then the return of the pedal board back into the UFX. This way, I can route the pedals through the front end of an amp, or through the effects loop just by recalling one of the Mix presets.

  • Registered: 2017-08-20
  • Posts: 16

Re: Routing fx pedals and instruments into the UCX and TotalMix FX

My UFX is routed:

Output 8 --> Effects board in - Effects board out --> UFX input 8.

Then I just use my level controls to route the signals as need be in TotalMix. I have presets to change the Effects loop to be either in the actual amp effects loop, or in front of the amp's input. To do this, I plug my guitar into the UFX and then route that signal through the outputs of the UFX to the inputs of the amps. I have three amps that I can do this with, and all I need to do is recall Mix presets to change amps, or reroute the effects.

No more rerouting cables, unplugging, and plugging things back in.

  • Registered: 2017-08-18
  • Posts: 24

Re: Routing fx pedals and instruments into the UCX and TotalMix FX

ok awesome, that sounds like an efficient solution for you.
Did you check out my diagram? if not, check it out, it might make things a bit clearer. My guitar is mic'd. And my Amp will be mic'd aswell. NOFX on either. I'll try the (output8 input8) FX route. Not sure if what I'm asking is clear?? check out my pic. Cheers GC

ghostman1846 wrote:

My UFX is routed:

Output 8 --> Effects board in - Effects board out --> UFX input 8.

Then I just use my level controls to route the signals as need be in TotalMix. I have presets to change the Effects loop to be either in the actual amp effects loop, or in front of the amp's input. To do this, I plug my guitar into the UFX and then route that signal through the outputs of the UFX to the inputs of the amps. I have three amps that I can do this with, and all I need to do is recall Mix presets to change amps, or reroute the effects.

No more rerouting cables, unplugging, and plugging things back in.

  • Registered: 2017-08-20
  • Posts: 16

Re: Routing fx pedals and instruments into the UCX and TotalMix FX

I looked at your diagram, which I see the guitar mic'd and the amp mic'd inputs, as well as the FX input. What my question is, what is feeding your FX's? I'm not sure how you are feeding your FX pedals. I am assuming you are routing your guitar through your effects pedals? smile

  • ramses
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Re: Routing fx pedals and instruments into the UCX and TotalMix FX

The signal chain has not been described clearly, only cables into the UCX which doesnt say anything about the desired results.
You need to make at the end 2 drawings. One with the physics (cables) and one with the logical signal flow.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2017-08-18
  • Posts: 24

Re: Routing fx pedals and instruments into the UCX and TotalMix FX

ok I'm a beginner so bear with me, ill try to explain again as clear as i know how..

basically i will run my guitar that has been mic'd with two mics into inputs 1&2 of UCX and TMFX. Ok, so next step is what I'm not sure whether i can achieve, hence asking on this forum..

The next step is to run a whole bunch of fx pedals in and out of one of the channels. And i want to merge them together in TMFX

I'm not being technically correct, but surely someone might know of what I'm trying to achieve.

There is no instrument connected to the fx chain. I want to just connect the whole loop of pedals to the UCX...is that possible??

The desired result, Nice natural acoustic guitar tone from stereo microphones into UCX, and a whole bunch of fx pedals in a loop that can pair with that stereo acoustic sound.

I don't know about logical signal flow. As i said I'm a beginner so I'm trying to ask the questions only way i know.   

ramses wrote:

The signal chain has not been described clearly, only cables into the UCX which doesnt say anything about the desired results.
You need to make at the end 2 drawings. One with the physics (cables) and one with the logical signal flow.

10 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-09-16 09:35:31)

  • ramses
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Re: Routing fx pedals and instruments into the UCX and TotalMix FX

Do it like me and build up kind of parallel effect loop.

http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … arren-Rig/


1. As first step I would connect the guitar to an instrument input.
Not necessary, but gives you more options.
Because then you can record the dry signal directly coming from your guitar for several purpuses:
- reamping
- feeding the signal in DAW to a virtual amp
- finding the sweetspot for mic by looping the track

2. This incoming signal you can easily route to an analog output which goes
- either directly to the amp input or
- alternatively you place a booster / distortion pedal / EQ here to get a nice distortion even with bedroom levels.
  This might be important to get a good sounding base tone for Mic'ing.

Now comes the interesting part to use i.e. the serial loop of your amp if you have one.

3. Effect Send -> Analog IN of recording interface
4. Send this Analog IN signal coming from Effect Send directly to Effect Return

By step 3+4 you ensure that the Amp Signal will be directly send from
Pre-Amp (Effect Send) to Power Amp (Effect Return).
By this you keep the punchyness and directness of the signal for best "bottom" and sound.

Now you need to draw some decisions, i.e.
- whether you want to record the dry amp signal with the Mic or
- to record together with the FX chain
and if you use the FX chain, whether you want to record mono or stereo.

The example in my blog article describes the routing with 2 Multi Effects.
I use them mono and I record
- the Instrument Input
- the 1-2 Mics with with FX

Each of the Multieffects get the Preamp Signal (Effect Sent) which comes in via an Analog Input.
You only need i.e. 2 Analog Outputs, 1 for each of the Multieffects.
Or if you want you use only 1 Analog Output for a chain of FX devices.
The return Signal will be send to one or more Analog Inputs.
These Analog Inputs you can route additionally to the Analog Out port that goes to the Poweramp (Effect Return).

And voila you have best sound in form of a parallel effect loop with additional possibilites like
reamping as I said. You can modify this setup of course for your demands.
In my drawing you can see, when output levels I used on my UFX+ for the output levels that go to the FX.

Here the drawing along, otherwise read my blog article.

If you have issues with routing, then see my blog article about TotalMix FX. Its really easy in submix mode and once you understand basic priciples its very logic and easy: http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … rnal-equi/

http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.php/Attachment/1859-01-UFX-for-Guitar-Rig-png/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2017-08-18
  • Posts: 24

Re: Routing fx pedals and instruments into the UCX and TotalMix FX

Okay first off Ramses, thank you for that I will have a proper read later. Just a note on your first suggestion though. I wanted to avoid plugging my guitar into the fx chain as i didn't want the 'Piezo' tone of the pickup coming through to the UXC. But maybe I'm right in assuming if its a dry/wet mix it won't have the actual guitar tone in the mix, just the fx? Then i can stereo mic the guitar for the actual foundational guitar signal..the 'sponge' if you like, then add the "fx icing' to the 'tone cake'.

Anyway ill read on

Thanks

  • ramses
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Re: Routing fx pedals and instruments into the UCX and TotalMix FX

At the end you can do what you want with the any to any routing of TM FX.
The setup simply needs to be pratical for you.
You will need to experiment what is better for you in terms of sound / handling / features
Whether you want to separate pure guitar sound from FX sound or not.

If your main purpose is to record your acoustuc guitar ...
Then I would record the dry guitar to have "that sound" of your guitar.
And then I would route this signal additionally to your FX chain and record the output of the effect chain in stereo.

Then you have later several options to either
- use both tracks and determine the level of dry / FX sound
- to use only the clean sounds and maybe better effects (i.e by using Lexicon PCM bundle which is at times really cheap compared to years ago).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2017-08-20
  • Posts: 16

Re: Routing fx pedals and instruments into the UCX and TotalMix FX

You can certainly do this with the UCX, as long as you have enough physical inputs/outputs to allow. I use the UFX, with my guitar connected directly to the UFX, and then I use TotalMixFX to route my signals to any one of three amps, as well as my effects pedals. That way, I can track a raw guitar signal, post effects chain, and post amp, either through a mic'd cabinet, or a Direct out from the amp. It takes some time to set them up, but after you get things dialed in for one setup, you can save the mix, and then tweak for other signal routes.

Good luck. smile

14 Reply by Gordon cole (edited by Gordon cole 2017-09-17 04:57:58)

  • Registered: 2017-08-18
  • Posts: 24

Re: Routing fx pedals and instruments into the UCX and TotalMix FX

Yes! that is it!
thank you, so now time to experiment. smile i will update on how i got there..

ramses wrote:

At the end you can do what you want with the any to any routing of TM FX.
The setup simply needs to be pratical for you.
You will need to experiment what is better for you in terms of sound / handling / features
Whether you want to separate pure guitar sound from FX sound or not.

If your main purpose is to record your acoustuc guitar ...
Then I would record the dry guitar to have "that sound" of your guitar.
And then I would route this signal additionally to your FX chain and record the output of the effect chain in stereo.

Then you have later several options to either
- use both tracks and determine the level of dry / FX sound
- to use only the clean sounds and maybe better effects (i.e by using Lexicon PCM bundle which is at times really cheap compared to years ago).

15 Reply by Gordon cole (edited by Gordon cole 2017-10-08 06:39:46)

  • Registered: 2017-08-18
  • Posts: 24

Re: Routing fx pedals and instruments into the UCX and TotalMix FX

IM LOST!!!

So i have a great mix coming in from my 2 mics to on the acc guitar into UCX input 1 & 2

Ive gotten rid of the amp idea..too confusing

I have two rev pedals.

I want to plug those into the UCX and paste them onto the 2 mic inputs in TMFX

Is the only way for me to do this to plug acc guitar through pedals and into an input on UCX and run the pedals 'wet' or 'dry' i don't know which one , i just want to hear the effects not the guitar.

the only guitar i want to hear is from the mics

i don't want to hear the acoustics pickup!

I'm having trouble comprehending these concepts

Am i coming out of the depths of confusion??


GUITAR => REVERB PEDAL 1 => REVERB PEDAL 2 => BALANCED INPUT 5 ON BACK OF RME UCX.

I CAN GET A 'KILL DRY' SIGNAL BUT ONLY A MONO SIGNAL COMING OUT OF ONE OF HEADPHONE.

SHIRLY ITS GOTTA BE SOMETHING SIMPLE? TMFX SAYS I CAN ROUTE ANYTHING?? EXCEPT MY MATES GIRLFRIEND!

and the wet signal is just too quiet i can hardly hear it in my daw. lvl are all good in tmfx.

any help would be appreciated. and Ramses you may need to just be patient with me again my friend
GC