• Registered: 2017-05-12
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Topic: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

I know this is a really simple question, but I still have so much trouble understanding TotalMix and can use some help.

I basically have everything setup in a way that works for my DAW, sending audio out to my monitors and headphones, recording from my mic and guitar, and it all works and sounds great, EXCEPT, the only way to silence my mic is turn the gain all the way down on its input (AN1).

I'm sure that's not correct. But muting it does nothing, turning the fader down does nothing. But I'm sitting here with my headphones on and I hear myself typing coming through the headphones. If I turn the gain knob all the way down on that input I don't hear it anymore (although no doubt I'd imagine it's probably still there, just totally silent from no gain). Isn't there a way to just mute it when I'm not using it?

What am I doing wrong with the routing of everything?

  • ramses
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

See my blog
http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … rnal-equi/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2017-05-12
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

ramses wrote:

See my blog
http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … rnal-equi/

Oh man I appreciate the response but I think I'm more confused than when I started. It's just so complicated. I just want to mute the input channel haha. Seems like it shouldn't be so hard.

4 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

Isn't it obvious that your DAW offers software monitoring of the input and you need to disable the monitoring in there?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
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MC's Website

  • Registered: 2017-05-12
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

MC wrote:

Isn't it obvious that your DAW offers software monitoring of the input and you need to disable the monitoring in there?

See I thought of that too, but it happens just in Windows too with the DAW closed. And with the DAW opened, whether any track's input monitoring is on or not I hear it, because I just hear it always. It definitely is just something to do with the routing I have going on in TotalMix but I just can't figure out what's wrong.

  • From: Germany
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=17789

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2017-05-12
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

I finally figured it out! I didn't realize that you had to have a specific output selected before moving the fader. I guess just one of the random ADAT outputs that will never in a million years have something hooked up is what was selected so the fader did on my hardware Input 1 had no effect (but gain still did because it's gain).

Thanks and I'll check out that tutorial video soon to see what else I didn't know haha.

8 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

Next time simply switch to the Matrix view. In there it would have been easy to see.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • ramses
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

bydavidrosen wrote:

I finally figured it out! I didn't realize that you had to have a specific output selected before moving the fader. I guess just one of the random ADAT outputs that will never in a million years have something hooked up is what was selected so the fader did on my hardware Input 1 had no effect (but gain still did because it's gain).

Thanks and I'll check out that tutorial video soon to see what else I didn't know haha.

This very important basic principle of TM is covered in my blog
and besides this some other useful tips. You should take the time.

On top of that RME Video Tutorials exist:
http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … al-Videos/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

So this issue is still persisting and I can't seem to figure it out no matter how much I read / watch.

I now understand that if you select the Main or Headphones you're getting a different set of levels. That makes sense. But when I select my Headphones in Control Room, then go up and mess with the fader on Input 2 where my mic is hooked up, it makes no different to what I hear in my headphones. I constantly hear the Microphone. There's a latency to it too so every time I say "testing" i'm hearing myself a split second later, which makes it impossible to use.

What am I doing wrong here? Here's a picture.

http://www.bydavidrosen.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/2018-02-26-07.51.20.jpg

  • Registered: 2017-05-12
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

OK here is how I know something is wrong!

I just rebooted and left everything as is (keep in mind I had hit mute on that Input 2 after taking the above picture and before rebooting so that's the only change). After rebooting I'm getting the desired result of my DAW being able to record but I don't hear my mic at full volume! Before rebooting you could hear my mic at all times, even with the DAW closed.

I noticed since I posted this question originally back in November that "SOMETIMES" it works as I'd hope and sometimes it doesn't, and sure enough all i need to do is reboot to make it work how I want.

So what is going on here? I'm on 1.40 of Total Mix.

  • Registered: 2017-05-12
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

One more update. So I just loaded up my DAW (Studio One). And I'm recording a podcast, so I set up my track, started recording. everything was great. Hit Stop. Decided I needed to talk a little more... Hit record... ITS BACK! I now hear myself. Just like that.

Nothing has changed in TotalMix. Nothing has changed in Studio One (and it would be like this if I closed Studio One too).

What is happening? Any ideas?

  • Registered: 2017-05-12
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

OK One more update then I promise I'll wait for an answer haha.

So I just went in and chose a different Buffer Size and it was almost like rebooting. I know I've tried this before and sometimes it seems to work sometimes it doesn't. It doesn't matter what Buffer Size I'm trying keep in mind. I can just change to whatever then change back to the same one it was already on and it'll be fine (if it works). So it's not a matter of WHICH Buffer Size I'm choosing, just the fact that I am choosing one at all which I guess kind of resets things?

A computer reboot is still a sure fire way to fix it temporarily, but as you can see from what I just described, it pops up like out of absolutely nowhere when it starts doing it.

I'll leave it at that for now, but would appreciate any ideas you guys can think of that I'm doing wrong...

  • From: Germany
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

If you hear the mic signal with a delay, then it goes through your DAW's software monitoring, which does come with a certain latency (configurable in the RME settings dialog), and it's not a Totwlmix issue at all. I seem to see a signal in the software playback section of the mixer, another indicator of signal going through the DAW software.

And changing latency does reset the driver.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2017-05-12
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

RME Support wrote:

If you hear the mic signal with a delay, then it goes through your DAW's software monitoring, which does come with a certain latency (configurable in the RME settings dialog), and it's not a Totwlmix issue at all. I seem to see a signal in the software playback section of the mixer, another indicator of signal going through the DAW software.

And changing latency does reset the driver.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Thanks for the response Daniel. However it does happen while the DAW is closed too. I still hear my mic at all times when just sitting in Windows with no programs open (once the problem begins... from boot up I don't hear it, only once the problem starts).

And yeah, if changing latency resets the driver, then that explains why that fixes it. S

  • Registered: 2017-05-12
  • Posts: 28

Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

Well the good news is after a couple days, I can tell you that quickly changing my latency to a different number and back DOES seem to fix it every time now. It's got to be a bug though that hopefully will eventually be fixed.

  • From: Germany
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

Hello.

this is definitely not a viable solution - and not a known bug anyhow. I can have a look at the system remotely in the coming days to see what might be happening here.
See rme.to/tv and let me know when it would suit you.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2017-05-12
  • Posts: 28

Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

OK thanks Daniel, I should have some time tomorrow morning if that works for you? I'll I'm Pacific Time. I'll private message you to see about scheduling something.

  • Registered: 2017-05-12
  • Posts: 28

Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

RME Support wrote:

Hello.

this is definitely not a viable solution - and not a known bug anyhow. I can have a look at the system remotely in the coming days to see what might be happening here.
See rme.to/tv and let me know when it would suit you.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Hi Daniel I just e-mailed you with some further information and so we can hopefully set up a support remote session soon.

Thanks

20 Reply by bydavidrosen (edited by bydavidrosen 2018-05-27 23:16:25)

  • Registered: 2017-05-12
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

hey everyone. I'm still having this issue... it kind of went away for a while for some reason and since I was busy I just took it for granted, but its back now and bad.

here's a video ,maybe it will help someone see a problem with my settings...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5trW4xQDb8

i have emails in to support too but figured I'd ask in here.

  • From: Germany
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

There's a signal showing up in the Software Playback section of Totalmix - that seems to be the monitoring in your DAW software. This is not a Totalmix issue... Mute the Software Playback channel and see if it disappears. If yes, as I would assume, you will need to find the source, i.e. the monitoring configuration in your software.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2017-05-12
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

See and here is the problem... My daw is not open. It happens right from bootup (if it happens at all... After 5 reboots it's finally gone again). As far as I can tell there are no apps automatically booting that would use the microphone.

23 Reply by plankspanker (edited by plankspanker 2018-05-28 16:49:04)

  • Registered: 2017-07-01
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

I just watched your YT video and confirm, as others before, that you are likely getting sound coming from your PC. Middle row far left is showing signal in time with your voice. On my (standard) TM setup middle row far left is for anything coming out of my pc: youtube videos, pc sounds (altho mine are switched off), the output of your DAW, iTunes, just everything, all in stereo. If you don't have a DAW open I still reckon you`re hearing your PC soundcard output somehow, so it is in the PC`s audio setup that you need to look.
In your YT video you repeatedly try to lower the level of mic 1, and it`s muted, so you`re not getting the way TotalMix works: TM always passes everything through to your pc, regardless of mute and volume fader settings in TM. The gain pot trim does make a difference, but I guess you wont want to be forever adjusting that...   
To test my theory, try playing around with the middle row far left fader/mute. If the problem goes away, the mic return is clearly coming from the output of your soundcard, and is not a TotalMix problem. Good luck!
cheers

plank

  • Registered: 2017-05-12
  • Posts: 28

Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

plankspanker wrote:

I just watched your YT video and confirm, as others before, that you are likely getting sound coming from your PC. Middle row far left is showing signal in time with your voice. On my (standard) TM setup middle row far left is for anything coming out of my pc: youtube videos, pc sounds (altho mine are switched off), the output of your DAW, iTunes, just everything, all in stereo. If you don't have a DAW open I still reckon you`re hearing your PC soundcard output somehow, so it is in the PC`s audio setup that you need to look.
In your YT video you repeatedly try to lower the level of mic 1, and it`s muted, so you`re not getting the way TotalMix works: TM always passes everything through to your pc, regardless of mute and volume fader settings in TM. The gain pot trim does make a difference, but I guess you wont want to be forever adjusting that...   
To test my theory, try playing around with the middle row far left fader/mute. If the problem goes away, the mic return is clearly coming from the output of your soundcard, and is not a TotalMix problem. Good luck!
cheers

plank

Thanks for the response. I just got off a remote session with Daniel and he explained that to me. That the audio is still indepedently going through your system regardless of TotalMix. Which is confusing for me because my soundcard IS the baby face pro and total mix is basically the controls of the baby face pro... like i wouldn't be using total mix if there was another simpler way to control the gain and necessary stuff on the baby face pro haha. but i get it.

so the question is, next time this issue arises (because it's not happening right now and everything is working PERFECT)... what program managed to start itself up and start echoing my microphone input. because right now there's nothing, and i can't imagine what i am running that would do that... i thought Chrome for sure would be the culprit but yesterday I had the issue right at boot with no chrome running... so who knows... but next time i'm going to make a list of every single program running and paste it in here and we'll all take a look at it :-)

25 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2018-05-28 17:18:15)

  • ramses
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

Well, I think you really need to differentiate between 2 completely different szenarios

1. whether you only have the RME ASIO driver in use, like when you start your DAW and choose there the proper RME driver. Then the windows sound system is completely bypassed and all the routing goes exclusively via TM FX.

2. whether we speak about non-ASIO aware software, which requires WDM drivers (configured in the RME driver settings dialog). When using these drivers then TM FX is in use and I think the Windows sound system is also not bypassed, then the Windows Mixer might be active.

This is how I personally understood the flows, maybe to be validated / ok'd by RME, whether this is the proper understanding how audio "flows" through your PC in dependency whether you have ASIO aware apps or not:

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.php/Attachment/1988-TotalMix-Diagram-Overview-Signal-Flow-jpg

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

the reason it doesn't make sense to me is I only have one audio card (my on board audio is disabled completely) so the babyface pro is where everything would go through whether its my microphones going into the computer or any software generated sound going out of the computer...  before the babyface pro i had a focusrite scarlett 2i4 and used it the same way... before that was an m-audio ozonic, used it the same way... before that was another m-audio and then the days before that 20 years ago was a soundblaster haha. but the point being it's hard to imagine that it's going through 2 separate drivers when it would seem there's only one. honestly i use my audio interface as a glorified input plug for my microphones. i use none of the features of it, the only reason i upgraded was because i heard if you're constantly having bad luck with focusrite drivers... spend the money and go with a baby face pro haha. and on that front it's been great... just 1000x more complicated. but great.


but anyway, based on that signal flow image... if i'm understanding it correclty, the issue is that my microphone in is going through BOTH totalmix (via asio) AND some WDM driver based application at the same time. which would make a lot of sense since i'm hearing myself doubled... except for the life of me i don't know what program that would be. like i said i thought for sure it would be chrome but chrome wasn't running. so like i said next time it does pop up i'm going to type out a list of every single program running in task manager and try to narrow it down. but again it happens right at boot up (literally on the lock screen before i'm even on the desktop!)... so it's definitely not some program i'm running after booting. it's something automatically starting... but i guess it just doens't always happen? i dont know.

27 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2018-05-28 18:03:07)

  • ramses
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

The normal professional way of recording is ...

You have a DAW supporting ASIO, you have a recording interface with an ASIO driver.
You have no internal sound card, best disabled in the BIOS.
You have system sounds disabled in Windows and do not use an internal sound card.
Everything happens between recording interface and DAW via this one ASIO driver and nothing more.

When semi professional guys like us also want to make use of the recording interface for other things,
then the RME WDM drivers kick in. Its simply an additional feature of RME / REM drivers create separate
WDM drivers which can be used by Windows and other non-ASIO aware applications.

But then you simply need to be careful with your signal flow ...
As its not the normal recording case if you playback using youtube and use the DAW then to record
youtube and you.

Surely possible but you need to take care about more things.
But now that you know it, it should be possible for you to understand this setup and its demands better.
Simply also have a look to your Windows Mixer.
And in the DAW maybe by careful to enable direct monitoring for your tracks.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: TotalMix Question - Can always hear my mic

Guess what everyone?? I think I figured it out last night once and for all. When I spoke to someone from RME directly they mentioned that the issue was probably Windows also using the device at the same time. So sure enough, the issue popped up totally randomly again last night, and I checked the Windows Volume Mixer, and one of the faders was "Analog 1+2 (RME Babyface Pro)" so I turned that fader all the way down... Can only hear myself through my DAW now and TotalMix operated as expected (turning the faders on my mic channel down/up affects the volume of my voice. So the issue was my mic input both routing through TotalMix as expected, AND through Windows at the same time as two separate signals.

I still have no idea how it gets turned on / up in Windows, as I am definitely not touching that fader (I actually never ever touch the Windows Volume Mixer at all... I do all of my volume through TotalMix). But at least if and when it happens again, I'm sure checking there and turning that volume back down to 0 will fix it again :-)