1 (edited by mkupicz 2018-03-20 11:39:07)

Topic: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

I saw a lot of worrying threads regarding the MBP and all USB RME interfaces. What's the official statement from RME regarding those laptops? All I saw is blaming Apple entirely, I get it, but that means that all current Apple laptops with USB-C connectors are useless until some unspecified update will or will not come from them?
I want to buy current MBP 13" without touchbar and use it with original RME UFX, should I be worried? Or maybe using USB-C to FIREWIRE will be more hassle free?
Cheers

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

Im having the USB-C Pro and its working terrible; glitches and audio recordings with errors in them; inbuilt soundcard works fine. A friend i'm working with has the same issues; but an older macbook pro with normaal usb. He has the issues with my UFX and with a friensd babyface. Its something with rme-sierra. UAD seems to work fine.

I am worried because I get no actual feedback from RME, send them now I guess 3 emails with not even a response sad

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

Hello,

I have no emails from this address of yours in my inbox. Where (and from where) did you send these mails?


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

Hi Daniel,

I send 3 email's to support@rme-audio.de on:

-07-11-17
-28-11-17
-04-01-18

Best, Robin

5 (edited by mkupicz 2018-03-20 16:13:33)

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

Are you using Sierra or High Sierra? If going back to Sierra solves the problems, then I'm fine with waiting for the HS update.

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

childrenof9 wrote:

I send 3 emails to support@rme-audio.de on:


From the email address used for the forum? Can't find any.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

7 (edited by mkupicz 2018-03-20 17:34:50)

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

RME Support wrote:
childrenof9 wrote:

I send 3 emails to support@rme-audio.de on:


From the email address used for the forum? Can't find any.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME


Is there a possibility for an opinion from you regarding current MBP and operating system?

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

RME Support wrote:
childrenof9 wrote:

I send 3 emails to support@rme-audio.de on:


From the email address used for the forum? Can't find any.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Hi Daniel,

Its another email adres: robinhuntmusic@gmail.com

Best, Robin

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

mkupicz wrote:

Are you using Sierra or High Sierra? If going back to Sierra solves the problems, then I'm fine with waiting for the HS update.

At Sierra I got issues and I got the tip of Matthias to try High Sierra, didn't help anything and looked like it got even worse sad

10 (edited by mkupicz 2018-03-20 18:23:30)

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

childrenof9 wrote:
mkupicz wrote:

Are you using Sierra or High Sierra? If going back to Sierra solves the problems, then I'm fine with waiting for the HS update.

At Sierra I got issues and I got the tip of Matthias to try High Sierra, didn't help anything and looked like it got even worse sad

That's a bummer, do you think it would work with Windows 10 and this laptop?

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

mkupicz wrote:
childrenof9 wrote:
mkupicz wrote:

Are you using Sierra or High Sierra? If going back to Sierra solves the problems, then I'm fine with waiting for the HS update.

At Sierra I got issues and I got the tip of Matthias to try High Sierra, didn't help anything and looked like it got even worse sad

That's a bummer, do you think it would work with Windows 10 and this laptop?

With windows probably like a charm. I suspect OSX of behaving dodgy...

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

FWIW I'm in a similar situation (MacBook Pro 2016 with usb-c and high Sierra 10.13.3) and getting lots of glitching with my UCX. I _love_ the UCX so I really don't want to move away from it but it's kind of unusable right now.

Common issues:

1. All sound becomes corrupted. Once this has happened you have to go to the audio settings in the DAW and choose a new buffer size (and then switch back if you like). Rebooting also works of course.
2. Clicks and pops when scrolling in Studio One
3. Crashes in Studio One, Bitwig and Maschine much more frequently than when not using the UCX.

UCX is connected directly via a USB adaptor. Tried: Apple usb-c <--> usb-a connector, Apple hdmi adaptor with usb, apple VGA adaptor with usb, 2 different 3rd party usb-c to usb-a adaptors.

Buffer size doesn't seem to make a difference between - tried from 64 to 2048 in various DAWs.

13 (edited by mkupicz 2018-03-21 22:18:24)

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

Thanks for reply! Sounds like hell sad It's really a shame that someone dropped the ball on one of the most popular computers and interfaces around, regardless if it's Apple or RME.
After all I decided to pass on new Macs, also decided to switch to dedicated multitrack recorder (Cymatic uTrack24) and not use RME UFX for live gigs anymore.
Cheers!

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

alex1 wrote:

FWIW I'm in a similar situation (MacBook Pro 2016 with usb-c and high Sierra 10.13.3) and getting lots of glitching with my UCX. I _love_ the UCX so I really don't want to move away from it but it's kind of unusable right now.

Common issues:

1. All sound becomes corrupted. Once this has happened you have to go to the audio settings in the DAW and choose a new buffer size (and then switch back if you like). Rebooting also works of course.
2. Clicks and pops when scrolling in Studio One
3. Crashes in Studio One, Bitwig and Maschine much more frequently than when not using the UCX.

UCX is connected directly via a USB adaptor. Tried: Apple usb-c <--> usb-a connector, Apple hdmi adaptor with usb, apple VGA adaptor with usb, 2 different 3rd party usb-c to usb-a adaptors.

Buffer size doesn't seem to make a difference between - tried from 64 to 2048 in various DAWs.

EXACTLY the same issue here. I was in my studio with a producer and singer Im working with and they have the same issue with different RME interfaces (Babyface, UFX, UCX) and OSX sierra / OSX high sierra. I'm in the middle of 2 big projects and can't reinstall; I can't risk to lose settings or risk that projects will not work anymore! I do have little productions sessions in between but working like this is just ridiculous; a fast macbook, 40% CPU in ableton but when it starts glitching recorded stuff get's corrupted / out of time. This is just NOT doable in a pro session. Come on @ RME, give us something or mail back after 3 unanswered mails to supprt. At least confirm that this issue exist. Its perfectly possible Apple is at fault, but then i can reinstall OSX with maybe an older OS and not go for another soundcard!

PS its also happening with older macbooks without USB-C! So its probably OSX related?

15

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

@childrenof9:
> I was in my studio with a producer and singer Im working with and they have the same issue with different RME interfaces (Babyface, UFX, UCX) and OSX sierra / OSX high sierra.

That's a too vague and unclear statement. To our knowledge Apple has finally fixed their USB problems (at least the ones you describe) with High Sierra 10.13.x. How many of those that you know having problems use 10.13?

We can reproduce degraded performance with 10.12., but no longer with 10.13, which is a must-do upgrade for anyone having one of the newer Macs, but also recommended for anyone else.

Also our support feedback (similar to this forum) lacks proof that there are tons of Apple users out there with problems like you describe them. You seem to be an exception to the rule, and unfortunately it looks like we can not change the performance of your Macs from our side.

@Alex1:
> Clicks and pops when scrolling in Studio One etc.

It seems you need to do a Windows-style breakdown of active devices and drivers to find out what is interrupting USB audio when doing graphics stuff on that machine. The need to disable WiFi and Bluetooth (just an example) is nothing new in the Apple world. I agree this is disappointing, but there is nothing we can do to improve USB operation when it gets disturbed on hardware level.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

MC wrote:

@childrenof9:
> I was in my studio with a producer and singer Im working with and they have the same issue with different RME interfaces (Babyface, UFX, UCX) and OSX sierra / OSX high sierra.

That's a too vague and unclear statement. To our knowledge Apple has finally fixed their USB problems (at least the ones you describe) with High Sierra 10.13.x. How many of those that you know having problems use 10.13?

We can reproduce degraded performance with 10.12., but no longer with 10.13, which is a must-do upgrade for anyone having one of the newer Macs, but also recommended for anyone else.

Also our support feedback (similar to this forum) lacks proof that there are tons of Apple users out there with problems like you describe them. You seem to be an exception to the rule, and unfortunately it looks like we can not change the performance of your Macs from our side.

Today we had the same issue: He is on osx Sierra 10.12.4, I am on 10.13.3. Its goes like this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/anu21bznc2bjm … 1.mp4?dl=0

The singer Im working with had also 10.12.4 So exeption of the rule ?

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

What are the main issues with Sierra that make High Sierra a must-do upgrade? I've heard conflicting reports about High Sierra so I'm very confused!

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

I can confirm major show stopping issues with

- RME Fireface UC + latest 3.03 driver and firmware
- Connected directly to MBP via USB C to B cable
- 15" Macbook Pro 2016
- OS X High Sierra 10.13.3

Ableton 10.0.1 under little or no load plagued with dropouts, glitching, crackles etc. Buffer size makes no difference.

Here's a video example - two audio tracks, no plugins.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_Edm … sp=sharing

Professional musician in the middle of a project, driving us nuts!

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

Ableton Live always had issues on Macbooks in low CPU load situations. That is because of OS X aggressive, but rather imperfect power-saving functions. So in order to first rule out that long known culprit, please try running the software "Systemload" at around 10-20% load while using Live.

https://www.bresink.com/osx/SystemLoad.html

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

I don’t think the culprit is Ableton at low load.  The video example is with low load, but most of our projects run at 20-30% CPU minimum. We’ve used Ableton for many years with various RME hardware Bangface, Bangface Pro without hitting this issue.

We’ve been in conversation with Ableton artist liason/support, supplying logs etc and they are clear it’s an issue somewhere between OS X and the UC.

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

amtiskaw wrote:

I don’t think the culprit is Ableton at low load.  The video example is with low load, but most of our projects run at 20-30% CPU minimum. We’ve used Ableton for many years with various RME hardware Bangface, Bangface Pro without hitting this issue.

We’ve been in conversation with Ableton artist liason/support, supplying logs etc and they are clear it’s an issue somewhere between OS X and the UC.

Hi amtiskaw, in your video its sounds exactly as the problem I and the people im working with are having. Did you use migration assistant for configuring your macbook?

When you're having these issues, your inbuiltsoundcard works fine?

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

I once had dropouts on my Macbook Pro after updating OS X versions. After a fresh installation and subsequent migration of old settings/files it worked. So I do trust the migration assistant to some extend, at least more than the upgrade assistant.

20-30% CPU load means little to nothing, because it is not real CPU load. Live's own CPU meter is only a rough indication of its own engine. 80% in its CPU load simulation is less than 5.5% of real CPU load on my system (make that 11% if we ignore hyperthreading cores). Make sure to do the Systemload test before looking any further.

This doesn't mean that this cannot be an OS X / Macbook vs. UC issue, but without proper tests it's hard to say.

23 (edited by amtiskaw 2018-03-30 13:53:07)

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

Built in soundcard generally works fine.

High Sierra was installed and upgraded via App Store.

Will conduct some further experiments and report back. Perhaps yesterdays 10.11.4 will help.

It's slightly confounding in that the updates to High Sierra and Ableton 10 (from 9) and use of the UC all happened at the same time.

That Mac had worked quite happily with a Babyface Pro and Ableton 9 for a year. No 'low load' issues.

Thank you for the suggestions an input so far smile

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

amtiskaw wrote:

Built in soundcard generally works fine.

High Sierra was installed and upgraded via App Store.

Will conduct some further experiments and report back. Perhaps yesterdays 10.11.4 will help.

It's slightly confounding in that the updates to High Sierra and Ableton 10 (from 9) and use of the UC all happened at the same time.

That Mac had worked quite happily with a Babyface Pro and Ableton 9 for a year. No 'low load' issues.

Thank you for the suggestions an input so far smile

Im having these issues both in 9 and 10, is that something you could check? If under 9 these issues are there?

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

MC wrote:

@Alex1:
> Clicks and pops when scrolling in Studio One etc.

It seems you need to do a Windows-style breakdown of active devices and drivers to find out what is interrupting USB audio when doing graphics stuff on that machine. The need to disable WiFi and Bluetooth (just an example) is nothing new in the Apple world. I agree this is disappointing, but there is nothing we can do to improve USB operation when it gets disturbed on hardware level.

Thanks for the suggestion. I did that and managed to resolve the scrolling-skipping issues. However, with the RME UCX connected and NO other usb devices on the system, the audio glitches are still just as frequent.

I switched over to the audio interface in a Native Instruments Maschine mk3 and everything works perfectly, even with 2 5k monitors, multiple usb devices, etc.

I switched to internal sound. Everything works perfectly.

I switched to a usb audio device built in to my external monitor. Everything works perfectly.

Switch back to the RME UCX -> total failure again.

I'm very happy to help you track down the bug, but I simply can't accept that this is not solvable by anyone but Apple.

If you're willing to accept this is an RME issue and work to resolve it, please let me (and I guess the rest of us?) know asap since otherwise I expect we'll all be shopping for new hardware.

26

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

All the other USB interfaces that you tried were using Apple's own Class Compliant driver within the OS. You can try this with the UCX as well...

> I'm very happy to help you track down the bug

There is no bug on our side.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

MC wrote:

All the other USB interfaces that you tried were using Apple's own Class Compliant driver within the OS. You can try this with the UCX as well...

> I'm very happy to help you track down the bug

There is no bug on our side.

So what you're saying is that with the Class compliant driver it works but apparently not with the RME driver from mine and 3 (!!) people's perspective I work with.

If one of you guys are in Berlin, let me show it straight to you directly!

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

The message is clear:

RME does not support Mac on usb products
RME will not fix bugs or workaround issues that they deem to be someone else’s fault, even if it renders the RME product unusable.

I’d been eying up a UFX+ but it’s too risky with this approach to support. Time to try a Quantum and some decent preamps - about the same cost.

29 (edited by childrenof9 2018-04-08 20:14:28)

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

Yeah agree, what RME is saying it does work with class compliant mode but not with RME's driver itself. So then the issue can also be in that driver.

What annoys me a lot is the 'not our problem' attitude. Easy to blame apple, they can be right but then at least give ideas / active help towards solving this. A fact is, RME does NOT work usable with my (high) sierra macbook and I have 3 other people who also have these issues besides the people in this thread. This is just not an isolated issue anymore.

30 (edited by ramses 2018-04-08 21:04:21)

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

childrenof9 wrote:

Easy to blame apple, they can be right but then at least give ideas / active help towards solving this. A fact is, RME does NOT work usable with my (high) sierra macbook and I have 3 other people who also have these issues besides the people in this thread. This is just not an isolated issue anymore.


If there is an issue inside of MAC OS then its only consequent that not only one system has issues ...

Sometimes Microsoft makes mistakes, sometimes Apple ... I only say Fusion Drive ...

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Cubase 9.5, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

Hello,

alex1 wrote:

I'm very happy to help you track down the bug, but I simply can't accept that this is not solvable by anyone but Apple.

If you're willing to accept this is an RME issue and work to resolve it, please let me (and I guess the rest of us?) know asap since otherwise I expect we'll all be shopping for new hardware.

This isn't so much an issue of "accepting" theoretical possibilities, but of knowing what is and can be an RME issue and what isn't. There is more to this than just "blaming Apple". It would help if you could accept facts.

alex1 wrote:

The message is clear:

RME does not support Mac on usb products.

That's not correct. This is neither a general Mac issue nor specifically an RME problem...


RME will not fix bugs or workaround issues that they deem to be someone else’s fault, even if it renders the RME product unusable..

Allow me to rephrase this: We can not fix that we have determined to be an external issue, even if it were to render a certain kind of computer hardware unusable with out interfaces. Please mind that no audio interface can compensate for performance issues of a computer.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

RME Support wrote:

Hello,

alex1 wrote:

I'm very happy to help you track down the bug, but I simply can't accept that this is not solvable by anyone but Apple.

If you're willing to accept this is an RME issue and work to resolve it, please let me (and I guess the rest of us?) know asap since otherwise I expect we'll all be shopping for new hardware.

This isn't so much an issue of"accepting" theoretical possibilities, but of knowing what is and can be an RME issue and what isn't. There is more to this that just "blaming Apple". It would help if you could accept facts.

Normally I wouldn't waste time responding to a thread like this - wasted enough dealing with the problems with the UCX already, but it's getting quite funny. Which fact exactly would you like me to accept?

That the UCX is not usable on a high-spec modern MacBook Pro 15"?
That RME refuses to workaround an issue which renders their hardware unusable?
That you'll put more effort into trying to rephrase peoples' genuine issues than track down and fix the bug (or if it's Apple's bug, work around it).

RME Support wrote:

There is no bug on our side.

Saying that the OS doesn't work the way you want it to does not mean you have no responsibility for providing a working product.

Unless it's impossible for any audio hardware to work, then the issue lies in a combination of your hardware and Apple's hardware/software.

RME Support wrote:
alex1 wrote:

The message is clear:

RME does not support Mac on usb products.

That's not correct. This is neither a general Mac issue nor specifically an RME problem...

Have you published an announcement stating which models of Mac work with your products and which don't? It might be a better approach than trying to rephrase the problem until it goes away.

I'll start you off: The Fireface UCX is not usable on a 15" i7 2016 MacBook Pro with High Sierra 10.13.3 (and .4).

RME Support wrote:

RME will not fix bugs or workaround issues that they deem to be someone else’s fault, even if it renders the RME product unusable..

Allow me to rephrase this: We can not fix that we have determined to be an external issue, even if it were to render a certain kind of computer hardware unusable with out interfaces. Please mind that no audio interface can compensate for performance issues of a computer.

You blame the malfunctioning UCX on "performance issues" of the computer, yet other audio hardware works fine, and you even claim the UCX works in class-compliant mode (thereby bypassing your drivers).

It would help if you could accept facts.

33 (edited by ramses 2018-04-09 14:19:35)

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

alex1 wrote:

Saying that the OS doesn't work the way you want it to does not mean you have no responsibility for providing a working product.

I think its more the point that both products need to comply to certain standards.
In this case RME can't fix something, so its Apples responsibility.

Do you remember how all companies producing firewire audio interfaces (Focusrite, etc .. ALL!) had Firewire issues when Apple brought out its fusion drive ? It was a big mess, until finally Apple fixed the issues on THEIR side and this is only one example.

I believe that RME is so honest to know when they can fix something and when not. I know RME in a way that they do everything for their customers if they can. Certainly much much more than Apple.

So .. what makes you so sure that its RMEs responsibility to fix something ?

Its surely for you a lot easier to make big waves here compared to open a support case at Apple, one customer out of millions. But is this a fair or professional manner ? I believe not.

BTW .. what were your activities so far into the direction to Apple ?

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Cubase 9.5, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

alex1 wrote:
RME Support wrote:

Hello,

alex1 wrote:

I'm very happy to help you track down the bug, but I simply can't accept that this is not solvable by anyone but Apple.

If you're willing to accept this is an RME issue and work to resolve it, please let me (and I guess the rest of us?) know asap since otherwise I expect we'll all be shopping for new hardware.

This isn't so much an issue of"accepting" theoretical possibilities, but of knowing what is and can be an RME issue and what isn't. There is more to this that just "blaming Apple". It would help if you could accept facts.

Normally I wouldn't waste time responding to a thread like this - wasted enough dealing with the problems with the UCX already, but it's getting quite funny. Which fact exactly would you like me to accept?

That the UCX is not usable on a high-spec modern MacBook Pro 15"?
That RME refuses to workaround an issue which renders their hardware unusable?
That you'll put more effort into trying to rephrase peoples' genuine issues than track down and fix the bug (or if it's Apple's bug, work around it).

RME Support wrote:

There is no bug on our side.

Saying that the OS doesn't work the way you want it to does not mean you have no responsibility for providing a working product.

Unless it's impossible for any audio hardware to work, then the issue lies in a combination of your hardware and Apple's hardware/software.

RME Support wrote:
alex1 wrote:

The message is clear:

RME does not support Mac on usb products.

That's not correct. This is neither a general Mac issue nor specifically an RME problem...

Have you published an announcement stating which models of Mac work with your products and which don't? It might be a better approach than trying to rephrase the problem until it goes away.

I'll start you off: The Fireface UCX is not usable on a 15" i7 2016 MacBook Pro with High Sierra 10.13.3 (and .4).

RME Support wrote:

RME will not fix bugs or workaround issues that they deem to be someone else’s fault, even if it renders the RME product unusable..

Allow me to rephrase this: We can not fix that we have determined to be an external issue, even if it were to render a certain kind of computer hardware unusable with out interfaces. Please mind that no audio interface can compensate for performance issues of a computer.

You blame the malfunctioning UCX on "performance issues" of the computer, yet other audio hardware works fine, and you even claim the UCX works in class-compliant mode (thereby bypassing your drivers).

It would help if you could accept facts.


I feel exactly the same way, I hate wasting time on figuring these issues out. Im busy every day in the studio with a lot more pressing matters, but in this case it disrupts my workflow SO much (not being able to record audio!!!!!!) that I have to go into these forums. I send emails, no reaction, just NO help from RME of actually TRYING to help me out.
I feel really disappointed sad

35

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

alex1 wrote:

I'll start you off: The Fireface UCX is not usable on a 15" i7 2016 MacBook Pro with High Sierra 10.13.3 (and .4).

We have this exact machine (16 GB RAM, ATI graphics), and the UCX works without any noticable problem on it. We also tried all 4 USB-C ports (you did not mention which one you use). We usually use a cheap Aukey hub for USB connection, but also tried the original Apple one.

It would be nice if you could also accept the fact that the UCX works on this machine over here. I do not deny that you have performance problems, but obviously as long as we can't reproduce them there is nothing that we could change or fix.

Serious question: Did you ever try a different USB cable? It might be simply broken, causing such kind of effects.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

MC wrote:
alex1 wrote:

I'll start you off: The Fireface UCX is not usable on a 15" i7 2016 MacBook Pro with High Sierra 10.13.3 (and .4).


It would be nice if you could also accept the fact that the UCX works on this machine over here. I do not deny that you have performance problems, but obviously as long as we can't reproduce them there is nothing that we could change or fix.

All cool and fine that it works on your machine, but what do I care when in my case and the people I'm working with it just doesn't work proper. What makes this whole discussion counterproductive is that the communication of RME is going about facts and looking at a piece of hardware from their perspective. This is apparently not relevant for us.

What can I now do to make sure my UFX works as a soundcard should? I think I showed already I am willing to help because more people have these issues, I send movies, emails, a lot console messages. But I received no response and no serious help. It cost me time which I can also put into my production work which I now spend on figuring things out and also trying to help RME. I just don't have a clue how to continue.

What do you want me to do, I actually followed MC's advice to go to High Sierra to no avail, I tried different cables, adapters etc. But I know that is not an issue, 3 friends of mine with (high) sierra had similar issues here and with different RME soundcards. Another friend I know on mavericks, works here with exactly the same cables with no problem. So probably a OSX issue, but on the other hand, it works with RME stuff in Class Compliant but not with the actual RME driver, so something is not right either.

I gladly invite you to my studio here in Berlin, cup of coffee and we can check what's up. Im not the only one here, and until now RME's attitude towards problems is rightly worrisome.

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

MC wrote:
alex1 wrote:

I'll start you off: The Fireface UCX is not usable on a 15" i7 2016 MacBook Pro with High Sierra 10.13.3 (and .4).

We have this exact machine (16 GB RAM, ATI graphics), and the UCX works without any noticable problem on it. We also tried all 4 USB-C ports (you did not mention which one you use). We usually use a cheap Aukey hub for USB connection, but also tried the original Apple one.

Well that’s very interesting to hear. Are you suggesting that it’s my individual copy of the MacBook Pro (and presumably the copies childrenof9 and his colleagues) which is at fault?

MC wrote:

It would be nice if you could also accept the fact that the UCX works on this machine over here.

I’m happy to believe you. It would be interesting to try to identify the differences between environments. Maybe we could help solve the problem for many other users.

MC wrote:

I do not deny that you have performance problems, but obviously as long as we can't reproduce them there is nothing that we could change or fix.

Serious question: Did you ever try a different USB cable? It might be simply broken, causing such kind of effects.

Glad to be back to troubleshooting: yes I’ve tried about 4 or 5 different cables (just swapping cables and nothing else, in order to isolate the issue). The behaviour is the same in each case.

I’ve tried all 4 usb-c ports.

I’ve tried the system connected to other equipment but also fully isolated with only the UCX connected and hooked up only to my speakers in case it was some sort of electrical fault.

I’ve tried the UCX powered direct from the wall and via a UPS.

USB hubs I’ve used include Apple’s USB-c to usb adaptor, apple’s usb-c to vga adaptor, apple’s usb-c to hdmi adaptor, an aukey hub, and another usb-c to usb-3 adaptor. I’ve also tried adding an extra usb-2 hub between these and the audio card (actually, 2 different hubs). No change.

I’ve also had the corruption occur when playing audio direct from macOS, so I know it’s now DAW-related.

The one thing that does seem to correlate is CPU load above 50%. Have you tested your setup with, for example, a DAW loaded with many plugins? The “helpful” part of this problem is that once you’ve triggered the UCX to go corrupt, all sound through the UCX on the system is corrupt for some time (often until you restart the device or switch audio rates / buffer sizes). So for example you could play the DAW to generate a realistic load, trigger the corruption, quit the DAW and you will still have corrupt sound in the OS.

This is helpful to demonstrate that it’s not the plugins / DAW distorting themselves.

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

The one thing that does seem to correlate is CPU load above 50%. Have you tested your setup with, for example, a DAW loaded with many plugins? The “helpful” part of this problem is that once you’ve triggered the UCX to go corrupt, all sound through the UCX on the system is corrupt for some time (often until you restart the device or switch audio rates / buffer sizes). So for example you could play the DAW to generate a realistic load, trigger the corruption, quit the DAW and you will still have corrupt sound in the OS.

This is helpful to demonstrate that it’s not the plugins / DAW distorting themselves.

Yeah this is exactly what happens here, both the symptoms as well as the conditions; it always happens when more cpu load is above roughly 50%, sometimes less as well, but always under load.

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

Random troubleshooting question, apropos of nothing: are you using the RME interface as the default system audio output, as well as for your audio applications? Sounds like it -- I wonder if the problem persists if you use the interface exclusively with your DAW.

I'm on an older MBP with real USB ports, so I'm not affected by any of these problems, but I'm following this thread with some interest since I'll need to upgrade hardware eventually...

40 (edited by alex1 2018-04-10 11:27:20)

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

jeremy.bernstein wrote:

Random troubleshooting question, apropos of nothing: are you using the RME interface as the default system audio output, as well as for your audio applications? Sounds like it -- I wonder if the problem persists if you use the interface exclusively with your DAW.

I'm on an older MBP with real USB ports, so I'm not affected by any of these problems, but I'm following this thread with some interest since I'll need to upgrade hardware eventually...

Always good to get an extra mind on the problem! Thanks!

I just tried this and it _seems_ to have reduced the frequency of the dropouts.

I just ran a mix with low (64 sample) buffers to stress test and although there were quite a few dropouts from plugins overloading the CPU the UCX only went into "corrupt" mode twice. The first time it recovered after around 10 seconds and the second time it got stuck, needing a change of block size (and back) to reset it.

Normally I have to run on 2048 samples with this mix to reduce the RME corruption and it barely gets to 5 minutes. It also pretty much never fixes itself.

Switching the system audio back to the UCX seems to have increased the frequency of the dropouts again, even upping the sample rate.

I still wouldn't trust this thing for a recording session, but it's a step in the right direction and maybe can help narrow down the source of the issue.

This really needs to be verified with automated testing.

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

Maybe there is something related ....

Does your Apple use Intel integrated graphics ? I had issues with such a setup on a Lenovo T540P (Win7, ~4y ago)
On an otherwise IDLE machine simply playing back a FLAC file with MusicBee I only needed to use the
mousewheel to scroll up and down a little with a loaded webpage in Firefox and got audio dropouts.
Stability I got with my UFX only by raising the ASIO buffersize from 48 to 256 or even 512.

Then by occasion I found the possibility to let firefox run over a dedicated nVidia GPU which was additionally deployed on this Laptop. Once I configured to run firefox application via the nVidia GPU the problems were all away and I had absolute stability at lowest ASIO buffersizes of 48 samples.

The issue arose I think, that the GPU inside of the CPU shares the DRAM with the machine.

Just an idea .. dunno whether applicable in your specific case.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Cubase 9.5, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

Wow what a thread, I have considered a new MacBook over my old one. (currently on Windows 10 PC). 

I sense the frustration here, from both RME the users.

If RME have no issues on their MacBook (assuming it's all setup the same) then it's accepted that the new MacBook are fine to use?  Does this affect anything else is I have a Babyface pro.  I wouldn't want to upgraded to something only to have issues.

If I was to buy an of the shelf MacBook Pro today and run Ableton and a Babyface pro would everything work?

43 (edited by ramses 2018-04-10 16:29:01)

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

strangedays wrote:

Wow what a thread, I have considered a new MacBook over my old one. (currently on Windows 10 PC). 

I sense the frustration here, from both RME the users.

If RME have no issues on their MacBook (assuming it's all setup the same) then it's accepted that the new MacBook are fine to use?  Does this affect anything else is I have a Babyface pro.  I wouldn't want to upgraded to something only to have issues.

If I was to buy an of the shelf MacBook Pro today and run Ableton and a Babyface pro would everything work?

Just read this here: https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=26986 .. something weired with Apple .. or Google ... who knows..

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Cubase 9.5, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

ramses wrote:

Maybe there is something related ....

Does your Apple use Intel integrated graphics ?

Just an idea .. dunno whether applicable in your specific case.

Mine has a Radeon Pro 460. They also have an intel HD 530 onboard but the Radeon is normally in use from one program or another, and always if an external monitor is plugged in.

45

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

We will continue testing after Musikmesse. Thanks for the further details. Several questions from our side:

- how is the UCX clocked and what typical sample rate do you use?
- do you use MIDI, and is this heavy or light MIDI load?
- is Siri activated?
- Do you get drop-outs also with simple playback of music via iTunes? I assume not as that doesn't cause enough CPU load...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

46 (edited by childrenof9 2018-04-11 21:00:15)

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

MC wrote:

We will continue testing after Musikmesse. Thanks for the further details. Several questions from our side:

- how is the UCX clocked and what typical sample rate do you use?
- do you use MIDI, and is this heavy or light MIDI load?
- is Siri activated?
- Do you get drop-outs also with simple playback of music via iTunes? I assume not as that doesn't cause enough CPU load...

- I normally use 44100 Hz
- I don't use a lot of midi on the soundcard, sometimes some external keyboard hooked up with midi, but most of the time I use a USB keyboard. I do use midi tracks with instruments on it in Ableton / Cubase.
-Siri was activated
- When I do simple playback like spotify or I tunes I never get dropouts. When the UFX goes into 'glitch mode' even simple playback is distorted.

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

MC wrote:

We will continue testing after Musikmesse. Thanks for the further details. Several questions from our side:

- how is the UCX clocked and what typical sample rate do you use?
- do you use MIDI, and is this heavy or light MIDI load?
- is Siri activated?
- Do you get drop-outs also with simple playback of music via iTunes? I assume not as that doesn't cause enough CPU load...

- 48k always
- Sometimes, but normally over USB when those devices support it. Has no impact on the audio issue as these are generally disconnected when mixing
- No. Siri drives me nuts :-D
- No, although if I run another process that is cpu-intensive it can trigger the corruption.

Not that this is not just drop-outs. Once the glitch occurs, the sound is completely corrupted until the unit is reset or I change the audio rate to reset it.

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

It's been more than one year now that I havent been able to use my RME UC on my MBP with USB-C.
I have stopped believing it is an issue that can only be resolved by Apple, as my NI Audio 10 which I am forced to use again on stage now, is working without any problems.

Unfortunately there isn't an alternative for a small size sound card with 8 or more outputs, so I am hoping that REM takes their responsibility and tries working o a solution.

If there is a USB-C MBP in the RME office, that works 'Plug and Play' (plug and unplug the USB cable without issues and not crashing the touch bar) then I would like to see a video of that as I don't believe it.

49

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

You are hijacking a thread that talks about a different problem. Your issue has a known workaround explained here, starting at post 17:

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=24842

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

50 (edited by chungboom622 2018-04-13 00:19:33)

Re: What's the verdict on current Macbook Pros + USB RME interfaces?

Guten tag everyone!

I'm not sure if I got the same issue with you, I'm using mbp 15" 2017 running on Sierra with UFX.
the DAW I regularly use is pro tools 12.
and I found it a "pop" sound appeared, just like the sound of turning on the speaker volume and turn on the computer.(sorry to be ridicules, but I can't find a better way to describe it lol.)

and the most important part is no matter I m using pro tools or just watching video in youtube, the "pop" still appears intermittently, so anyone got this issue?