51 (edited by Robertm394 2019-01-30 23:22:51)

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

I've read that the way the signal is transmitted in an XLR cable helps with noise rejection resulting in a better, less noisy signal. If this is true, it still proves the basic point that cable design can influence sound quality.


Look, there is nothing different here from what I said above.

Balanced audio cables have three wires that serve as conductors--negative, positive and ground. The positive and negative wires both carry the audio signal but with opposite polarities. This means that any noise from outside interference sources will be cancelled out. Balanced cables are suitable for audio applications that require long lengths (more than 25 to 30 feet).

https://www.techwalla.com/articles/what-is-an-xlr-cable

In other words, cable design affects sound quality.

52 (edited by ramses 2019-01-31 07:27:41)

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

No, it's not the "cable design" alone, that you have one wire more.

What you are still missing is that balanced cables need to have a special circuit on both sides which makes use of the additional wire which carries the same signal in reversed polarity for noise cancellation purposes:
http://www.aviom.com/blog/balanced-vs-unbalanced/

This makes balanced cables superior over non-balanced cables in the 1st place not the "cable design".
Additionally balanced connections are using higher signal levels which are typically found in studios which makes it also possible to use much longer cables lengths. The article mentions up to 30m, which is not possible with unbalanced cables without loss.

So it's not the cable quality which makes balanced connections superior, it's the logic behind how it works with the extra circuits on both sides, sending the same signal in reversed polarity over the additional wire, etc ..  which at the end eliminates any form of deltas (noise) to the original signal.

BR
Ramses
Win7 Prof, CubPro9.5, UFX+, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB, Sonnet USB3-PRO-4PM-E

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

And you have all the benefits of the balanced system even if you use a cheap TRS cable...

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

Robertm394 wrote:

Even if so, which may be true, I've read that the way the signal is transmitted in an XLR cable helps with noise rejection resulting in a better, less noisy signal. If this is true, it still proves the basic point that cable design can influence sound quality.

No, it does not. Balanced/unbalanced has nothing to do with cable quality whatsoever, and would also apply to coathangers. Please inform yourself (Wikipedia).

Robertm394 wrote:

You need to stop misinterpreting my posts. Did I say my perception is "epistemologically superior" to the scientific method? No.
I simply said, it matters TO ME if I hear a meaningful difference between cables.

It is sad that you won't even for a moment acknowledge the fact that you may not be heraring, but (to put it  blunty) simply imagining these differences. If that is good enough for you, great, that's how snake oil sells... :-)

I also stated I'm not trying to prove it to you or anyone else here. At the same time, I haven't heard anything here that gives me a definitive reason to believe that cables can't influence sound quality. In fact, I'm now reading some tacit acknowledgement that in terms of analog cables, it MAY be possible.
.

That is because an analog cable actually transmits audio. An SPDIF cable and, even more so, a USB cable does not. As simple as that. This is not an audio transmission, there is no way categorically that the twice embedded audio content could be in any way affected by the cable, at least not gradually. The transmission will be either correct or corrupt, no shades of grey here.

Unless you acknowledge these two main issues, the discussion is really rather pointless...

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

55 (edited by ramses 2019-01-31 18:30:18)

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

N00b wrote:

And you have all the benefits of the balanced system even if you use a cheap TRS cable...

Yes. I wouldn't use cheapest cables to still be able to check or fix contacts  shall there be an issue or to have good shielding or to be able to reuse the plugs for another cabe.

TRS = tip ring sleeve = 3 contacts  for balanced cables / connections
TS = tip sleeve = 2 contacts for unbalanced cables / connections (ie instrument inputs)

There are also combinations possible of TRS plug on one side and XLR plug on the other end for balanced connection's.

RME has usually so called servosymmetric ports which detect automatically whether this is a balanced connection or not. I assume based on whether TRS or TS plug is plugged in.

Neutrik XLR have simply the advantage that they are very robust and usually can be locked at devices if it's prepared at the device. So i.e. ideal for stage or to be safe in the studio that no cable slips out. In some situations it's wanted that cables slip out .. on a guitar .. not to destroy something esp. on semi acoustics.

BR
Ramses
Win7 Prof, CubPro9.5, UFX+, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB, Sonnet USB3-PRO-4PM-E

56 (edited by joachim.herbert 2019-02-01 15:45:04)

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

@Robertm394 This is like car vs. motorcycle, i.e. two wheels vs. four wheels. There is a fundamental difference: A car will not topple while standing still, while a bike will. This behaviour does not depend on the implementation. Its the same for an Audi as it is for a Dacia on the car side and the same for a Ducati or a Honda on the bike side.

57 (edited by Robertm394 2019-02-02 02:42:04)

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

RME Support wrote:
Robertm394 wrote:

Even if so, which may be true, I've read that the way the signal is transmitted in an XLR cable helps with noise rejection resulting in a better, less noisy signal. If this is true, it still proves the basic point that cable design can influence sound quality.

No, it does not. Balanced/unbalanced has nothing to do with cable quality whatsoever, and would also apply to coathangers. Please inform yourself (Wikipedia).

Robertm394 wrote:

You need to stop misinterpreting my posts. Did I say my perception is "epistemologically superior" to the scientific method? No.
I simply said, it matters TO ME if I hear a meaningful difference between cables.

It is sad that you won't even for a moment acknowledge the fact that you may not be heraring, but (to put it  blunty) simply imagining these differences. If that is good enough for you, great, that's how snake oil sells... :-)


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

We're just talking past each other on this so I'm going to let it go.

As you can see, I did acknowledge this already in the same post you quoted:

That's not to say I'm 100% sure it's not psychoacoustic effects based on expectation. It certainly could be.