Topic: Sync lose and audio dropouts

Rme madi fx
Madi1: adi8-micstasy-micstasy-adi8
Connected as b1d1-b1d2-b1d3-b1d4
48k frame
Recording 12 channels of audio at 24-44.1
Loosing sync(in hammerfall driver sync lock disapears) for a moment loosing a signal, and returning in a 0.1 sec .. havung this for first time in this setup,this setup was very stable for a year before...

Re: Sync lose and audio dropouts

Madi fx is master, and other ones clocked by installed i64 cards... In madi remote all devices has "follow clock" on, first(adi8) shows 44.1k, second,  third and 4th shows 48k..

3 (edited by ramses 2018-12-15 10:50:14)

Re: Sync lose and audio dropouts

Remaining questions about the whole setup:
1. What OS and driver version are you using ?
2. Are you using the latest firmware on the HDSPe MADI FX card and on all connected MADI devices ?
3. When you talk about ADI-8 do you mean the ADI-8 QS ?
4. What MADI format do you use ? 64 or 56 channels ?
5. How are the clock settings at the HDSPe MADI FX card ? set to -> internal ?
6. How are the clock settings at each of the connected MADI devices ? -> clock source MADI ?
7. Do you use Auto-CA for delay compensation and does every device show an uniq Compensation ID ?
8. Do you use Redundancy or Mirror Mode ?
9. Whats the specification of the optical cable that you use ? Multimode OM4 ?
10. Do you use structured cabling and thus patchfields in your setup from room to room or between floors
Maybe the cabling between patchfields or the patchfield itself is not ok for whatever reason.
11. Did you mix eventually optical fibre cable standards ? Not sure if this would ever work, just an idea.

Some ideas:
1. check whether its related to the HDSPe MADI Port of MADI BUS 1: what happens if you use MADI2 or MADI3.
With this test you have least effort simply to see whether its MADI bus related, by plugging the cables to on the card from MADI1 port to MADI2 and then later MADI3.
I think best or even required for this test is to ensure, that these 2 driver options are disabled:
[  ] Redundancy Mode
[  ] Mirror MADI1 output to MADI2 and 3

2. check for impact of bad unit and/or cable
Connect only one device to the HDSPe MADI FX BUS 1.
Use always the same working cables.
By this you could detect a faulty / misbehaving or maybe misconfigured unit.
Or you detect a cable error while you are doing it.
Once you checked all devices, you repeat this procedure for all cables.

3. Eventually build the setup new in a compact way "one unit over the other"
using new OM4 cables of i.e. 0,5m and a longer cable from this "stack" to your HDSPe card:
Here one example: https://www.reichelt.de/duplex-jumper-s … p;&r=1
So the basic idea is to simplify the setup to be able to nail down a device or optical cabling problem.
Taking OM4 cable is IMHO the best to do as you can use this cable also very nicely for networking infrastructure so that you can stay with one cable type, be it patch or inhouse cabling for 2 purposes (audio and network).

As you might know you need to be careful with optical cables in terms of
- not touching the surface
- not to bend the optical cables too much (supported bending radius)

BR
Ramses
Win7 Prof, CubPro9.5, UFX+, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB, Sonnet USB3-PRO-4PM-E

Re: Sync lose and audio dropouts

Answers are:
1. Win 10 64 bit latest update, verison of driber 2.12
2. Latest firmware
3. Adi 8 qs of course
4. 64 channels madi format
5. Mafi fx clock internal
6. A. Adi-8qs 1- b1id1 clock source option follow clock on wck single on(switching changes nothing) state 44.1k
B. Mictasy 1- b1id2 clock source option follow clock on wck single on(switching changes nothing) state 48k
C. Mictasy 1- b1id3 clock source option follow clock on wck single on(switching changes nothing) state 48k


D. Adi-8qs 2- b1id4 clock source option follow clock on wck single on(switching changes nothing) state 48k
7. I use auto id fir the first one adi8 in chain
I use a delay comp for all four devices
8. Redundancy and mirror are off
9. Om3 and om4
10. I use a simple cable to cable connection in one of connections

Re: Sync lose and audio dropouts

Thanx for ideas, it unlock sufdenly and goes allright for a day or two

6 (edited by ramses 2018-12-15 15:58:31)

Re: Sync lose and audio dropouts

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

In regards to your answer to point 6: where do the MADI devices get their clock from ? From word clock or from MADI ?
I am wondering, why all your 3 devices after the 1st ADI-8 QS have clock set to 48 kHz.

> "clock source option follow clock on wck single on(switching changes nothing)"
And could you pls explain what you mean by this, sorry I didn't understand it.

> Thanx for ideas, it unlock sufdenly and goes allright for a day or two
So you mean that checking per device wouldn't do the trick as the issue only happens every 1-2 days ?!
OK if this is the case I would propose the following to find out
- whether its bus related or
- device related

As you have 3 busses. Can you split the devices between two MADI busses and clock by MADI ?!
MADI1: 2 x ADI-8 QS
MADI2: 2 x Micstasy

And then loock whether its always the same bus where it happens.
If it would happen only on i.e. BUS MADI1, then switch the devices on the two busses
MADI1: 2 x Micstasy
MADI2: 2 x ADI-8 QS
If the error moves then to MADI2, then the issue seems to be device related.

BR
Ramses
Win7 Prof, CubPro9.5, UFX+, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB, Sonnet USB3-PRO-4PM-E

Re: Sync lose and audio dropouts

Question to RME: or do you have another proposal in regards to troubleshooting ?
Interesting is IMHO the point that it works for 1-2 days and then the devices are loosing synch AFAI understood from him.

BR
Ramses
Win7 Prof, CubPro9.5, UFX+, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB, Sonnet USB3-PRO-4PM-E

8

Re: Sync lose and audio dropouts

The option Follow Clock is only of interest when using/changing to Double or Quad Speed. But this is not the case, so the only important point is that all slave devices must clock to either their Word input or MADI input.

> Madi fx is master, and other ones clocked by installed i64 cards... In madi remote all devices has "follow clock" on, first(adi8) shows 44.1k, second,  third and 4th shows 48k..

Which is obviously wrong and therefore it makes no sense to look anywhere else than at the point between first ADI8 and first XTC.

How ist that XTC synced and what is its clock setting?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

9 (edited by pazl 2018-12-15 17:31:33)

Re: Sync lose and audio dropouts

Its not xtc, but micstasy and they all clocked by madi after "madi fx(master)" one after another

10 (edited by pazl 2018-12-15 17:47:24)

Re: Sync lose and audio dropouts

ramses wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

In regards to your answer to point 6: where do the MADI devices get their clock from ? From word clock or from MADI ?
I am wondering, why all your 3 devices after the 1st ADI-8 QS have clock set to 48 kHz.

It gets clock from madi, and i m also wondering why it shows state 48k, and it sound in sync("state 48k" is a phrase from midi remote, only indication on mictasy is clock optn, no sample rate value is lit which is correct while clocking from madi)

ramses wrote:

> "clock source option follow clock on wck single on(switching changes nothing)"
And could you pls explain what you mean by this, sorry I didn't understand it.

Clock source - option(madi)
Follow clock - on
Single world clock - on

ramses wrote:

> Thanx for ideas, it unlock sufdenly and goes allright for a day or two
So you mean that checking per device wouldn't do the trick as the issue only happens every 1-2 days ?!
OK if this is the case I would propose the following to find out
- whether its bus related or
- device related

As you have 3 busses. Can you split the devices between two MADI busses and clock by MADI ?!
MADI1: 2 x ADI-8 QS
MADI2: 2 x Micstasy

And then loock whether its always the same bus where it happens.
If it would happen only on i.e. BUS MADI1, then switch the devices on the two busses
MADI1: 2 x Micstasy
MADI2: 2 x ADI-8 QS
If the error moves then to MADI2, then the issue seems to be device related.

Its a good idea i'll make research

Re: Sync lose and audio dropouts

Here are midi remote settings
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/HqYp/ZvSxvY5T8

12 (edited by ramses 2018-12-15 19:53:30)

Re: Sync lose and audio dropouts

pazl wrote:

Here are midi remote settings
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/HqYp/ZvSxvY5T8

The 2 devices left are ADI-8 QS, the 2 devices on the right are Micstasies.
You said the order of devices is: adi-8-qs -> micstasy -> micstasy -> adi-8-qs
The clock settings are:
ADI-8-QS                                              Micstasy
#1    INPUT: Option Mode 44.1 kHz      #1 SOURCE: Option State 48 kHz
#2    INPUT: Option Mode 44.1 kHz      #2 SOURCE: Option State 48 kHz

From that it seems to be the case that you do not use Word Clock, instead you get clock via MADI for all devices.
Its strange that all Micstasies have other clock (48 kHz).

What is the clock on the HDSPe MADI FX again ?!?!

And could you also kindly double check the order of devices on MADI bus 1 ?!
Whether it's really:                   adi-8-qs -> micstasy -> micstasy -> adi-8-qs
If this is the case,
then clock would be in that order:  44.1           48             48               44.1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/096j0mmb1xkn0yq/2018-12-15%2019_21_43-Clock-Issue-HDSPe-MADIFX-Micstasy-ADI-8-QS.jpg?dl=1

BR
Ramses
Win7 Prof, CubPro9.5, UFX+, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB, Sonnet USB3-PRO-4PM-E

13 (edited by pazl 2018-12-15 22:33:21)

Re: Sync lose and audio dropouts

Exactly the order is:
1. Bank 1 id 1 adi 8 qs 1
2. Bank 1 id 2 micstasy 1
3. Bank 1 id 3 micstasy 2
4. Bank 1 id 4 adi 8 qs 2
The freq of master(madi fx) is 44.1
It's not a sync freq(i mean 44.1 48 48 44.1), but "device state"... Cause if i track this way all the signals are synced, have no clicks or dropout and are all in tune.. so devices are well synced through MADI(cause actual freq are synced throuth MADI and i think madi remote just reports bullshit)... Everything works that way for almist a year and records everything stable ass hell(RME style)... And for some days I have 10-12 that drops .. i need actually to recheck all my cables i think and one sc-sc "cheap" connector... I think

14

Re: Sync lose and audio dropouts

pazl wrote:

It gets clock from madi, and i m also wondering why it shows state 48k, and it sound in sync("state 48k" is a phrase from midi remote, only indication on mictasy is clock optn, no sample rate value is lit which is correct while clocking from madi)

The Micstasy does not show you the current input sample rate, so does the MIDI Remote - that value is dimmed.

The only relevant information is SYNC, which is the case.

So your devices are not running at 48 kHz sample rate, but the expected 44.1.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

15 (edited by pazl 2018-12-16 09:29:51)

Re: Sync lose and audio dropouts

I was sure in that fact, just wanted to explain it... And I as it writen in manual when clocking by madi - theonly way to understant that device in sync is when "option" in clock section is lit