• From: Austria
  • Registered: 2017-10-21
  • Posts: 4

Topic: Any benefit to using higher sample rates? (Fireface UFX/ADI-8 DS mk3)

Hi,

I am wondering if there are any actual benefits to using sample rates above 44.1 kHz, both in recording as well as processing in a DAW.

From what I understand, it is technically easier to oversample and use a less steep anti-aliasing filter plus some digital filtering to get a better 44.1 kHz band-limited signal. The anti-aliasing filter at a 44.1 kHz sample rate would have to be very steep so that it wouldn't attenuate the signal within the threshold of human hearing.
This, however, seems to me to be something that the actual A/D converters would do?

Oversampling aside, are there any benefits to using sample rates beyond 44.1 kHz?
I guess that the AD/DA latency would be slightly lower at higher sample rates, but on the other hand I guess that I might be able to use smaller (relative) buffer sizes at lower sample rates because it's less taxing on my PC - keeping in mind that a 256 sample buffer at 96 kHz should result in the same latency as a 128 sample buffer at 48 kHz.

All I can see are downsides: high sample rates require much more bandwidth, storage space and processing power.
I'll resample everything down to 44.1 kHz anyway when exporting audio.

So what I would like to know:

  • Do the AD converters in the Fireface UFX and ADI-8 DS mkIII oversample?

  • What reasons would there be to record in higher sample rates, especially 96 kHz or above?

  • What reasons would there be to process, mix and master in higher sample rates?

I'm currently leaning towards working in 44.1 kHz or 48 kHz. Not only do I expect to need a fraction of the processing power and storage space, I could also expand my Fireface UFX further, because the ADI-8 DS mkIII should only need a single ADAT port in 44.1/48 kHz instead of two (because DS at 96 kHz).

urbanhusky's Website

  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,647

Re: Any benefit to using higher sample rates? (Fireface UFX/ADI-8 DS mk3)

For it to be useful, whatever you record needs to output freqs above 20khz. So you will need very good mics and preamps and even instruments for that. Then comes the question if any of this has any audible value. At all and if played back over normal equipment (amps speakers headphones etc). If anything in the chain doesn't pass above 20khz it is futile anyway. And I know my 56 years young ears don't hear anything above 16k .
It also depends if you are a creator or an audio engineer. As a creator it is more about creativity then sound quality in the absolute sense, as an engineer you have to do what the client wants in the best possible way, so if they want 96k or 192k, there you go.
I work and output at 44.1K solely.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

3 Reply by fl (edited by fl 2019-02-03 16:48:57)

  • fl
  • S/Mux specialist
  • Offline
  • From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2007-11-12
  • Posts: 266

Re: Any benefit to using higher sample rates? (Fireface UFX/ADI-8 DS mk3)

As long as you are happy with the sound of your 44.1 kHz. recordings, and as long as you foresee NEVER needing these recordings to ever be provided to someone at a higher sample rate, then you have no need. To my ear, there is a much greater improvement in quality working in 24 bit as opposed to 16, than you'll ever get working at a higher sample rate as opposed to a lower.

However, I have found that there is some benefit to working with higher sample rates when you are dealing with applying DSP, such as compression or equalization. It's my feeling that the higher rate gives the processing more to work with, yet in a shorter time frame. Anything with a "look ahead" function seems to benefit.

At the end of production, if you wish to create mixes at 44.1 from a higher SR project, that is trivial and many DAWs will do that for you as a function of the mixdown process. It's easy to go from a higher SR to a lower, but going from a lower to a higher will not give you any benefit - you'll just use up more storage space for the same quality you had at the original, lower rate.

I've been working at 96 kHz. for several years now, and I appreciate having all my production files at the higher resolution, as I can always generate 44.1 mp3, AAC, FLAC, Ogg Vorbis or WAV files, at 16 or 24 bit resolution whenever they're required, but in the meantime, my "Masters" exist at the higher quality.

Frank Lockwood
https://LockwoodARS.com
Fireface 800, Firmware 2.77
Drivers: Win10, 3.125; Mac, 3.36

fl's Website

  • From: Austria
  • Registered: 2017-10-21
  • Posts: 4

Re: Any benefit to using higher sample rates? (Fireface UFX/ADI-8 DS mk3)

Any "faster" output from compressors etc. would get cut off at downsampling anyway. I would even argue, that (digital) compressors would produce the same output within 0-44.1 kHz regardless of the sample rate used - as long as it is at least 44.1 kHz.

Samples don't need to land exactly on the attack portion of a compressor to correctly represent the compressed signal. The offset of when to sample can be anything as the reconstructed signal would be identical anyway.

If anything needs 96 kHz later, then I could just upsample it tongue

urbanhusky's Website