Topic: SteadyClock FS

Recently I purchased an ADI-2 DAC and am very happy with it. Unfortunately my (old) Squeezebox Touch died yesterday so I am looking for a new streamer. SOtM seems to be a good choice as it has good reviews and is capable to stream from Logitech Media Server (so I can still use my Squeezebox Duets in other rooms with lesser quality equipment as my main equipment).

SOtM - for me - has 2 candidates. The sMS-200 Neo and the sMS-200 Neo Ultra, the latter with an sCLK-EX clock which, according to SOtM and various reviewers, would bring a dramatic sound improvement compared to the non-Ultra version.

I have read the ADI-2 DAC manual and tried to grab an understanding of the SteadyClock FS technology. And I am afraid I am not in excess of 50% of it ... Anyhow, the manual states that "(...) the DA-conversion always operates on highest sonic level, being completely independent from the quality of the incoming clock signal" (chapters 4 and 31.3, pages 6 and 55). Does this mean that the sMS-200 Neo Ultra has no added value compared to the non-Ultra version (when used with an ADI-2 DAC)? And if so, would that apply to connecting via USB, optical and/or coax?

Oh, I am not looking for any audiophile psychoacoustic comments. I am just interested in the technicalities.

2

Re: SteadyClock FS

delavandaag wrote:

I have read the ADI-2 DAC manual and tried to grab an understanding of the SteadyClock FS technology. And I am afraid I am not in excess of 50% of it ... Anyhow, the manual states that "(...) the DA-conversion always operates on highest sonic level, being completely independent from the quality of the incoming clock signal" (chapters 4 and 31.3, pages 6 and 55). Does this mean that the sMS-200 Neo Ultra has no added value compared to the non-Ultra version (when used with an ADI-2 DAC)?

Bingo, you got 100%.

delavandaag wrote:

I And if so, would that apply to connecting via USB, optical and/or coax?

All. SteadyClock FS is always active/running.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: SteadyClock FS

Many Thanks MC, for your reply. As clear as the ADI-2 DAC reproduces recorded music.

Re: SteadyClock FS

Have a look at Pro-Ject Ultra Streamer as well, it's between those you mention both for cost and sound quality (from what I have heard). Its also very popular, so you can probably borrow it from a HiFi store before buying.

Here is a review: https://www.stereophile.com/content/pro … ork-bridge

Re: SteadyClock FS

Delavandaag,

Welcome to the Group!    Such a shame about losing your SBT.   It works brilliantly with the ADI-2.   My SBT lives a Pampered Life to keep it from meeting it's demise sooner than necessary!

Nonetheless, whichever Streamer replacement you choose will be well served by your ADI-2!!  It is at the Razor's Edge of Performance, and will amaze you with it's Superb SQ, and Versatility.   

Good Luck going forward, and Happy Listening!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: SteadyClock FS

As an owner of two Squeezebox Touches...how did it die exactly? I'd like to be prepared.

7 (edited by Curt962 2019-06-06 03:31:29)

Re: SteadyClock FS

Bump!  I'd like to hear the Post-Mortem as well.   I love my SBT, and just don't know what's out there currently in such a complete Pkg.

Edit:  I do keep a replacement OEM AC Adapter on hand, as well as use Filtered/Surge Protected AC Source.  Also disconnect the Unit completely during Inclement Weather, or during extended periods of non-use.   Good for almost 10yrs!  (Knock on Wood)

It seemed some years ago, that most SBT Fatalities were the Result of errant "Mods", and incorrectly Polarized "Audiophile" PSUs that left users with an inert lump of Plastic rather than an expanded SoundStage....

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

8 (edited by delavandaag 2019-06-06 10:25:28)

Re: SteadyClock FS

Although off-topic:

@MagnusH: thanks for pointing me to the Pro-Ject Ultra Streamer. It looks interesting but cannot emulate a Squeezebox. It could be connected to the LMS with the DLNA plug-in for LMS but not all the LMS features would work. Syncing players for instance is not possible. And it is more expensive that the SoTM (non-Ultra version), at least here in Europe.

@Trojka/Curt: years ago the original AC adapter died. I bought a simple/standard AC adapter that served the Touch well for years. Recently, the last couple of months of its lifetime, the Touch randomly rebooted once or twice a week. The last couple of reboots were not all successful and I had to unplug and reattach the power to force a new reboot. Until that didn't work anymore. I thought that a replacement adapter would bring the Touch to life again. Unfortunately it makes no difference. The screen stays blank/black. I tried a hard reset. To no avail. The odd thing is that I measure 0 volt on a multimeter when the new power adapter is connected to the Touch whereas it measures 5 volt when connected to my Squeezebox classic.

Re: SteadyClock FS

I recommend the Allo digione signature rpi streamer, ASR has done measurements on it, and it's performance is very close to their AP analyzer.

Re: SteadyClock FS

I use toslink from computer directly to the RME ADI-2. I have to test someday if a transport like the Allo Digione (Signature) would result in better sound. But based on how well RME ADI-2 seems to handle jitter I doubt it will make much (if any) difference.

11 (edited by N00b 2019-06-06 16:17:39)

Re: SteadyClock FS

MagnusH wrote:

I use toslink from computer directly to the RME ADI-2. I have to test someday if a transport like the Allo Digione (Signature) would result in better sound. But based on how well RME ADI-2 seems to handle jitter I doubt it will make much (if any) difference.

Indeed: no difference in sound.
Do you think the transport HW can improve SQ ?

MC wrote:

The sound quality does not change at all. SteadyClock FS makes sure that no matter where the input signal comes from, there is no measurable difference.

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

Re: SteadyClock FS

Delavandaag,

Not to sidetrack your Thread, but plz DO check into the Slimdevices forum regarding your SBT.   It's a Shame to let that that Old Soldier fade away, and there are still some Sage old folks at the Slimdevices forum that might help you revive your SBT.    After all, The RME Team invested energies to ensure Perfect Connectivity with the SBT-ADI2 pairing via USB.    We can't let that go to waste.  smile

Good Luck!!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: SteadyClock FS

delavandaag

delavandaag wrote:

... Recently, the last couple of months of its lifetime, the Touch randomly rebooted once or twice a week. The last couple of reboots were not all successful and I had to unplug and reattach the power to force a new reboot. Until that didn't work anymore. I thought that a replacement adapter would bring the Touch to life again. Unfortunately it makes no difference. The screen stays blank/black. I tried a hard reset. To no avail. The odd thing is that I measure 0 volt on a multimeter when the new power adapter is connected to the Touch whereas it measures 5 volt when connected to my Squeezebox classic.

I had a similar problem with a Revox Tuner long time ago. Randomly On-And-Off ... This sounds to me as if there is something wrong withing the power supply circuits inside the Touch. My educated guess: Aging/corrupt electrolytic capacitors, which need to be replaced after some years of operation. Maybe you have a diagnostic and reparative look inside the Touch. Youtube will show you how to open this goodie.

Happy unscrewing!

Re: SteadyClock FS

That sounds like a difficult, hardware related, problem. Can you still access it via ssh? Do you think it's still on despite the black screen?

Btw, I got a Sonore Microrendu (as a backup plan for an unfortunate event like this) a few days ago. Secondhand, still on its way from England. It supports Squeezelite, so for the LMS software it's basically a 'passive' Squeezebox. In my case I never use the touchscreen, so it's not a problem. It's about the same price as a SoTM I believe. I'll let you know what I think when it has arrived.

Re: SteadyClock FS

daihedz wrote:

My educated guess: Aging/corrupt electrolytic capacitors, which need to be replaced after some years of operation. Maybe you have a diagnostic and reparative look inside the Touch. Youtube will show you how to open this goodie.

Happy unscrewing!

Well, I opened it up and it smells a bit like molded plastic. But I don't know how a well doing SBT smells on the inside ...

Trojka wrote:

That sounds like a difficult, hardware related, problem. Can you still access it via ssh? Do you think it's still on despite the black screen?

I did'nt try to access via SSH. Interesting idea. I will try as soon as I have time for it. But to answer your question: my guess is that it isn't accessible and I've got an R.I.P. in my hands.

Trojka wrote:

Btw, I got a Sonore Microrendu (as a backup plan for an unfortunate event like this) a few days ago. Secondhand, still on its way from England. It supports Squeezelite, so for the LMS software it's basically a 'passive' Squeezebox. In my case I never use the touchscreen, so it's not a problem. It's about the same price as a SoTM I believe. I'll let you know what I think when it has arrived.

Also interesting. I didn't know it is LMS compatible. It's a bit - not much - cheaper than SoTM. I would appreciate your report on the Sonore.

16 (edited by Trojka 2019-06-09 09:37:10)

Re: SteadyClock FS

It arrived today. Very easy to set up (currently as Squeezelite device, tried Roon too, which worked just as fine). So far so good. No display, no remote, everything has to be done by phone or laptop, this is something I'll have to get used to. It sounds just like a  Squeezebox. Can't say I hear much difference, to be honest. I probably shouldn't anyway. 'If' there is anything nasty going on, the RME is probably taking care of it. Or you just don't hear it. Some people might show some graph showing noise way below the hearing level, but who cares? It's my living room, where some levels of noise are always present (there's cat vomit on my noise floor sometimes). smile Anyway, it does what it's supposed to do. The idea that by Squeezeboxes can die in peace without a problem is comforting.

The SoTM looks more like an audio device. The microRendu is meant to invisible. It's a tiny and visually not a very attractive device. If you're looking for something nice to look at, it might not be your thing. But hey, the RME provides the eye candy. ;-)

17 (edited by Curt962 2019-06-10 15:36:56)

Re: SteadyClock FS

Trojka,

Good on your New Device.   Surely you also purchased the Mega-Buck Power Supply?

(that "necessity" turned me off immediately)

For my Money...I want to SEE my Streamer, and never have to leave my Lazy Chair to push buttons on a Computer.  To that end...I bought a Spare SBT (for Cheap) that looks/functions Factory Fresh.   

I'm addicted to the SB Eco-System, and am now 3 Deep at the Digital Head End.   The ADI-2 makes them all Top Notch!!

Nonetheless...I hope you're enjoying your new Device.

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: SteadyClock FS

SoTM is a little less surrounded by audiophile nonsense, true. I've grown blind (or deaf) for this type of talk, although I have been weaker in the past. Visiting this forum helps for sure. If you do not have a lot of knowledge and visit audiophile sites, one tends to think 'this more expensive gear is probably better'. But by using my ears, true ABX testing with help of my wife (and this forum) I found out most of it makes no audible difference at all. It was not much, a linear adapter for one of the SBT's, a cable or two, all purchased many years ago. But still, I sometimes feel ashamed for being so gullible. Usually my skepticsm kicks in earlier, but somehow this slipped through.

This was a small and simple device that could stream, it would enable me to connect my TV and BluRay to the RME as well (microRendu > USB, TV > optical and BluRay > Coax), I could get it relatively cheap, so it wouldn't hurt to try I thought. All alternatives were more expensive. The day RME makes a streamer, I would probably switch immediately.

One funny thing that would fit an audiophile review is that ever since I connected the RME ADI2, our cats (who usually ignore all music) suddenly pay attention to drums. Sometimes they wake up and look at the speakers, rather puzzled. It's something they have never done before. Probably because they sound more real. The soundstage you know. ;-)

Sorry for hijacking the thread. My mind wanders sometimes.

19 (edited by Curt962 2019-06-11 19:17:29)

Re: SteadyClock FS

Trojka.  Wow!

An RME Streamer?   Omigosh...I would STEAL money to buy that!! 

Let's not get ahead of ourselves however.  I suspect the RME Team already needs Sedatives in order to deal with our typically nonsensical Audiophile group...

What other Group could possibly believe that an Alternative Power Option is also a Portal for Magical Audio Fairies to expand Soundstages,.etc, et al.

I'm not making this up.  "Some" here actually extoll those beliefs...

Alas...for now, I'm just going to be extremely thankful for the Top End ADI-2.

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: SteadyClock FS

The worst I've read, and I'm not kidding, was a burn-in period for....firmware. smile

But I'll leave it at that in this topic...I wanted to share that last one though.

Re: SteadyClock FS

Trojka wrote:

The worst I've read, and I'm not kidding, was a burn-in period for....firmware. smile

But I'll leave it at that in this topic...I wanted to share that last one though.

Or burn-in time for cables...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

22 (edited by Curt962 2019-06-12 07:04:01)

Re: SteadyClock FS

Wow.  Burn-In Period for Firmware?  That's a Revelation. smile

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes