Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Curt962 wrote:

Mike,

Take a look at your User Manual regarding these features.   It explains in considerable detail the Functions of these Systems, and their Value to the User.   Great Stuff Mate!

Curt

*In a Nutshell, Auto-Ref allows the Digital Volume Control of the ADI-2 DAC to work at its Optimum S/N range, and Dynamic Loudness is a Compensatory System that adjusts Bass/Treble response in the manner defined by the scientifically proven Fletcher-Munson research.  As listening levels decrease, our Ears lose sensitivity at both ends of Audio Spectrum.

Thanks Curt.

The manual is always at hand do I'll have another look.

Dynamic Loudness sounds like RME's Version of Dolby Volume.

Thanks for clearing that up... smile

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

152 (edited by Curt962 2019-07-28 20:39:41)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Willem,

Let's go to Page 1 of this Manifesto brought about by the Illustrious "Sparkydude", and take a look at the Post where we created a Low-Cut filter for Sparky's System that seemed to ameliorate his most difficult Room Peaks. (How's that for a Run On Sentence?    My School Teachers would be...perhaps less than pleased)   The ADI-2 DAC makes creating such a filter astonishingly easy. smile

Curt

Edit:   I applaud Mike (Sparkydude) because his Original Post struck right at the CORE of good Audio Reproduction.   This Topic should be first, and foremost on every Enthusiasts agenda.   Hats Off to You Mike!

153 (edited by Curt962 2019-07-28 23:09:53)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

willem wrote:

Dear Curt,
Mechanical noise was a good hypothesis: I turned off all fans etc and the 15 Hz peak is gone. The quite big peaks around 25 and 40 Hz remain, and they also show with the sub turned off. So the Antimode does nothing for them and I need to address them with the rme filters. It was precisely for the facility to also equalize my main speakers that I bought the ADI-2. But boy what an incomprehensible interfac.

*Willem

The RME interface with the User can seem a bit complex (at first), but as you gain a bit of experience with its functions, it seems almost intuitive!

The 25hz thing?   I'm not convinced that there isn't some other intrusion happening in your Tests.  Vielleicht  Einen Kühlshrank in der nahe?   smile 

Home Appliances create noises that our ears filter out, but noises that our Measurement Mics hear very clearly. :0

Further, I strongly urge you to attempt the Test I described to you in an earlier post.   I want that Backwave attenuated as much as possible, so we can see the result.  I think the answer to your situation lives there.

Best Regards.

Curt (Sitting in the Western US Desert...)

Also...

Willem, the "Sounds" you describe regarding your Subs suggests to me that you were on occasion listening ONLY to the Subs.  Yes?

The Bass will ALWAYS sound Mucky because you are only hearing fundamental tones...not the higher frequency Harmonics, etc that give a Cello, or Bass Guitar it's "pluck" and definition.   Anyone that tells you that they CAN "Count the Cycles" on their Sub alone is...well...Full of Sh...t. smile

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Curt962 wrote:

Willem,

Let's go to Page 1 of this Manifesto brought about by the Illustrious "Sparkydude", and take a look at the Post where we created a Low-Cut filter for Sparky's System that seemed to ameliorate his most difficult Room Peaks. (How's that for a Run On Sentence?    My School Teachers would be...perhaps less than pleased)   The ADI-2 DAC makes creating such a filter astonishingly easy. smile

Curt

Edit:   I applaud Mike (Sparkydude) because his Original Post struck right at the CORE of good Audio Reproduction.   This Topic should be first, and foremost on every Enthusiasts agenda.   Hats Off to You Mike!

Thanks for your kind words Curt. I appreciate it very much!

I just want to listen to my music as the artist intended.
I don't want to colour the sound in any way at all BUT........ due to my small room causing modes, I have no choice but to digitally correct my speakers to achieve a much better frequency response which brings me closer to audio nirvana.... I'm a long long way from that but we've all got to start somewhere!

All I need now is a much bigger room to allow my speakers to shine....the next house we buy will have a massive listening room! big_smile (a big garden shed)

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

155 (edited by Curt962 2019-07-28 23:25:34)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Mike,

Your Thread has been Refreshing, and no doubt of assistance to others.  Thanks Mate!

You mentioned Laser Pointers to me.  Was it You?

I need to source a pair of those, so I can do a bit of Trim to my ADAMs.    Accuracy in positioning, Tilt, Toe Matters!

Curt

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Curt962 wrote:

Mike,

Your Thread has been Refreshing, and no doubt of assistance to others.  Thanks Mate!

You mentioned Laser Pointers to me.  Was it You?

I need to source a pair of those, so I can do a bit of Trim to my ADAMs.    Accuracy in positioning, Tilt, Toe Matters!

Curt

I hope it does help others! smile

Yeah, I use a Bosch laser pointer. It's about 3 inch long and inch wide. So not small but it does a good job.
Lots of options on it and can measure in feet and inches through to millimetres.

Got it from... Where else.... Amazon. big_smile

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

I'll most certainly look into those.  If any of us expect Pro Results in our Set Ups, we MUST use Pro Techniques.

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Curt962 wrote:

I'll most certainly look into those.  If any of us expect Pro Results in our Set Ups, we MUST use Pro Techniques.

Definitely mate.

Can't beat lasers! big_smile

You have to make "pew pew" noises when you use it though or it won't work. tongue

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Night guys.
. Bed time....


Zzzzzzzzz

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

160 (edited by Curt962 2019-07-28 23:48:16)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

What?   I gotta make a Sound?   

In the Past, I had been SO atuned to a bit of Transcendental Meditation in order to fully appreciate the "difference" wrought by some hideously expensive BS Audio Tweak...  smile smile smile

161 (edited by willem 2019-07-29 08:17:55)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Dear Curt,
Thanks again for your encouragement.
I put a lot of big cushions behind the electrostats and it did not make any difference.
The 15 Hz peak did indeed disappear when I turned off a small refrigerator in the k itchen, turned down the k itchen ventilation as far as possible ( the actual fan is on the upper floor in an enclosed space). Similarly the plasma screen and the set top box with their fans were off. The Netherlands are a densely populated country but we live in a detached house built from bricks and concrete and in a quiet neighbourhood. It was a Sunday and half the town is on holiday. I closed all (muffled) ventilation openings. The house has extra sound proofed double glazing.
We do not have airconditioning. We have hot water floor heating (obviously not now) but the pump is also active in tbe summer. That is the last possibility.
When I see the bar graph on the rme screen there is sometimes quite a strong music signal around 25 Hz.
My rew measurements were with and without the subwoofer but never just the subwoofer. The 25 Hz is clearly vïsible on the main speaker only measurements so they are the source and not the sub. Unless of course it is the floor heating pump, but I doubt it.
Playing music there are clearly some resonant frequencies in the bass region so I will have to equalize those. Thanks for your encouragement about the rme interface. I will once agsin have a good look at the manual and watch the videos.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Willem,

What are the Dimensions of your Room?  (H/W/L)

Also, some Screenshots of your Test Data would help us all to gain a better understanding of your situation.  Without Data, we're "Guessing" at what might be done. 

Work Demands will have me absent a considerable portion of the Day, but don't worry...there's others here to help. 

Regards,

Curt

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

willem wrote:

Dear Curt,
Thanks again for your encouragement.
I put a lot of big cushions behind the electrostats and it did not make any difference.
The 15 Hz peak did indeed disappear when I turned off a small refrigerator in the k itchen, turned down the k itchen ventilation as far as possible ( the actual fan is on the upper floor in an enclosed space). Similarly the plasma screen and the set top box with their fans were off. The Netherlands are a densely populated country but we live in a detached house built from bricks and concrete and in a quiet neighbourhood. It was a Sunday and half the town is on holiday. I closed all (muffled) ventilation openings. The house has extra sound proofed double glazing.
We do not have airconditioning. We have hot water floor heating (obviously not now) but the pump is also active in tbe summer. That is the last possibility.
When I see the bar graph on the rme screen there is sometimes quite a strong music signal around 25 Hz.
My rew measurements were with and without the subwoofer but never just the subwoofer. The 25 Hz is clearly vïsible on the main speaker only measurements so they are the source and not the sub. Unless of course it is the floor heating pump, but I doubt it.
Playing music there are clearly some resonant frequencies in the bass region so I will have to equalize those. Thanks for your encouragement about the rme interface. I will once agsin have a good look at the manual and watch the videos.

Willem have you tried using the Real Time Analyser in REW to measure the room without any music or test tones playing?  That would allow you to rule out any ambient noise pollution.

164 (edited by willem 2019-07-29 16:31:53)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

I tried to send the two most important graphs only to discover that the forum software does not permit attachments. So I will need to do something different.
I did not know that in rew I could also just measure the room. I will investigate.
The lounge is about 8 meters long, 4.5 meter wide and just over 3 meters high. Speakers are at one end. At the other end there is a large opening with a big sliding door opening to the dining room. Acoustically this makes the room some 12 meters long rather than 8. At the other end, next to the speakers, there is another big sliding door to my wife's study. So all in all it is not a small listening space.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

https://reho.st/


Use this to upload images Willem.

Click on the link, click browse, find the picture you want to upload then click on the button next to browse.
It will then give you a series of options for picture size.
If you look carefully, you'll notice that IMG IMG is typed throughout the screen.
This will be a Web address to the picture you want to use.

Choose one by highlighting within the IMG- - - - - IMG and copying it.

Come on here.

Choose to insert a picture and you'll see IMG IMG on the screen.
Paste in-between the two IMG IMG icons and when you click submit, your picture will appear.
Very long winded and unnecessary in this day and age but it's the only way to do it in Windows.

You can do this multiple times per post.

Hope you figure it out. smile

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

166

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

So Curt asked me to post Willem's results... Here there are:

https://reho.st/self/05bb0592b0f638ce286c2c1e952fccce1076992a.jpg
Without sub


https://reho.st/self/620a6452d29185b8dfff4e9b5a201268e3310d30.jpg
With sub equalized by Antimode

ADI-2 DAC - Neumann KH 310 A monitors

167 (edited by Sparkydude 2019-07-29 22:33:05)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

N00b wrote:

So Curt asked me to post Willem's results... Here there are:

https://reho.st/self/05bb0592b0f638ce286c2c1e952fccce1076992a.jpg
Without sub


https://reho.st/self/620a6452d29185b8dfff4e9b5a201268e3310d30.jpg
With sub equalized by Antimode

Something definitely wrong here.
Looks like an 100hz crossover in effect on the first graph but where you have the sub in play...looks very odd.
I would take the antimode out of the equation and remeasure.

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Sparkydude wrote:
N00b wrote:

So Curt asked me to post Willem's results... Here there are:

https://reho.st/self/05bb0592b0f638ce286c2c1e952fccce1076992a.jpg
Without sub


https://reho.st/self/620a6452d29185b8dfff4e9b5a201268e3310d30.jpg
With sub equalized by Antimode

Something definitely wrong here.
Looks like an 100hz crossover in effect on the first graph but where you have the sub in play...looks very odd.
I would take the antimode out of the equation and remeasure.

I'm led to believe that VAR smoothing isn't the way to go.
I use 1/3rd (for a nicer, smoother looking response) or 1/6th for a much more realistic looking view that isn't too harsh on the eye.... Your choice of course.

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

169 (edited by Curt962 2019-07-30 03:48:20)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Indeed, very Peculiar.    In fact, the Sub seems to have very little useful contribution at all, being 20-25 db lower than the Mains Output.  Ideally, we'd like our Subs, and Mains at the Same Output Level. 

As Sparky commented, it is perhaps best to bypass the Anti-Mode entirely, and retest.

Following that, the Level Matching exercise outlined earlier in this Thread should be accomplished to see if we can achieve a more manageable FR. 

PS:  Are the Quads being Hi-Pass filtered (attenuated) below 100hz?   It certainly seems to be this way, as the Quads are, as Stand-alone Speakers, capable of a far better performance than your Graphs indicate.  Let the Quads run Full-Range.    There is a LOT of Mischief taking place in your Graphs,, and we would benefit greatly from removing extraneous boxes from the Signal Path in order to determine the Guilty Party.

Don't Worry Willem.   Collectively, we'll help you get sorted out. 

Curt

170 (edited by willem 2019-07-30 07:28:24)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Yes it is odd indeed, and all the more so since in listening the bass sounds pretty overpowering (and quite boomy). The sub's cones are vibrating quite a bit on some program material. But no, there is no high pass filtering used: the Quads are running full range. Admittedly in John Adkinson's test in Stereophile their in-room response did not go much lower.
I will do a few tests:
1 check all the cabling to see if I have mixed phase in the speaker cabling
2 remove the sub and also the Antimode
3 test with a different microphone
4 test with a different amplifier (a  2x100 watt Quad 405-2)
5 change the speakers to the little Harbeth P3ESRs from my study

What I cannot I think test easily is whether my whole measurement set up is faulty. I am using the measurement mic that came with my Antimode, into their micamp microphone amp and from its (analogue ) output into my laptop. It could be that the laptop has a very crappy inbuilt soundcard/ADC. I have an external ADC for my fancy Sennheiser headset microphone that I use for speech recognition. I could try that and see if it makes a difference.

Thanks again
Willem

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

171 (edited by Sparkydude 2019-07-30 07:56:35)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

My apologies for the use of the word "crossover"...

It is indeed a high pass filter.

"head hung in shame"

Come on Willem... We need to get this fixed for you!

I personally would ditch the mic provided by antimode and go get a properly calibrated mic and decent mic stand.

UMIK 1 by minidsp is what I use and just a generic mic stand to attach it to. Must have a boom on it of course.
I don't know if your amplifier has hdmi inputs but if it has then you need a long hdmi lead to plug in to your amp.
You'll also need a USB repeater cable, again a nice long one. 10 metres +.
You don't want to be anywhere near the mic when you're calibrating. Just being in the same room when measuring will affect the results as you yourself will become part of the room and that isn't good.

Buy leads that are long enough for you to be in the k i t c h e n well out of the way when you take your measurements.

Just my thoughts mate... Up to you..

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

I've noticed if you type I AM A SPAMMING IDIOT you get the spamming idiot alert. big_smile

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

K i t c h e n

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

I made a few more measurements but got distracted because my wife and daughter called that they have had a minor car accident in Slovenia. All is well luckily. Will try to post the graphs.
I am a bit hesitant to ditch the Antimode mic for a umik because if it is indeed faulty I will need a  new mic for the Antimode as well (the umik will not work with the antimode.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

The mic is in the listening position. For rew tbe laptop's usb output goes into the adi 2. The analogue output of the rme goes into the line input of the Quad 606-2 power amp via 12 dB inline attenuators as per rme advice. The antimode is connected at speaker level ( attenuated to match its line level input). I can turn off the antimode and also the sub.
I am planning to change the connections by feeding the antimode and sub directly at line level from thd adi 2 with a Y cable but that should not make a sonic difference.
I think I am facing two issues
The first is that the measurements show a rather lower response of the main speakers below about 100 Hz. The second is that even at this measured lower level bass already sounds pretty overpowering.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

176 (edited by willem 2019-07-30 11:59:56)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

OK I can now exclude quite a bit: I do have a measurement gear problem. I measured with my Sennheiser and its external ADC. This is not a measurement mic but a rather good speech mic, so it probably misses out on the lowest frequencies. The result was a pretty flat response of just the main speakers down to about 40 Hz or a bit lower than that (as it should be for these speakers), with the obvious peaks and dips of course. Adding the sub was revealing: it was far too loud with a lot more response from 33 Hz up to about about 65 Hz. This explains why I did not like the sound with the sub low pass filter at 80 Hz rather than 33 Hz as I had arrived at by ear. So have returrned to the 33 Hz low pass filter for the sub. I am listening to Miles Davis Kind of Blue now and the bass intro on So What is excellent. It is clean, well defined and not overbearing: much better than yesterday with the filter set to 80 Hz.
Of course there are the peaks and dips that still need to be adressed but first I need to find out where in the chain of Antimode mic, Antimode mic amp and computer sound card something is not right and produces this fall off below about 100 Hz. I tried the Sennheiser mic into the laptop's analogue input but the signal was too low for rew. Or would that be a sign that there is something wrong with the laptops soundcard?

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Willem,

Perhaps you could simply borrow a friends Laptop, or PC for a day in order to rule out a problem there.   In parallel, contact DSPeaker support.  dspeakersupport.com

Explain to them the difficulties, and that the Anti-Mode Mic/Soundcard appears to be virtually "Blind" below 100hz.   This causes your DSP to try (unsucessfully) to correct what IT "sees" as low levels.    The result of this is the overbearing Bass Levels you describe.   Using this same Mic/Soundcard corrupts your REW tests.   Hmmmmm

Good Luck,

Curt

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

The first step is probably to rule out the laptop soundcard. I can install rew on my wife's desktop and measure from there.
An alternative explanation could be that I may have set a high pass filter on the laptops equalizer software. I vaguely remember doing that to clean up the sound when I used the laptop as a source playing into the Tivoli Audio Radio Two that I use when I am abroad for work for a few months. The snag is I cannot find the equalizer setting anymore. It may have disappeared in a windows update.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

I now measured from my wife's computer: same big reduction below about 100 Hz. So my conclusion is that the DSpeaker/Antimode mic or perhaps the micamp is faulty (no drop with the Sennheiser mic). I will get in touch with the Dutch importer.
Thanks for sharing my bewilderment.
Willem

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

willem wrote:

I now measured from my wife's computer: same big reduction below about 100 Hz. So my conclusion is that the DSpeaker/Antimode mic or perhaps the micamp is faulty (no drop with the Sennheiser mic). I will get in touch with the Dutch importer.
Thanks for sharing my bewilderment.
Willem

Wow!

So take the antimode out of the equation then and do a measurement.. smile
I still think you should upgrade your mic to a UMIK 1. tongue

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

181 (edited by willem 2019-07-30 20:10:44)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

I am afraid you are wrong: the problem existed without the Antimode as well and disappeared when I used the Sennheiser mic, with or without subwoofer and with the subwoofer with or without the Antimode. The issue is almost certainly a malfunctioning microphone. The Antimode's microphone was not some inferior product but a proper and calibrated measurement microphone. In the past it produced excellent subwoofer calibrations, but not anymore, I fear. Replacing it with a Umik will get me good REW graphs but will stil leave me without a tool to calibrate my subwoofer/Antimode.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

182 (edited by Curt962 2019-07-30 20:09:44)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Good Detective Work Willem!!

I believe now that your moving forward.    In the meantime, let's bypass the Anti-Mode entirely.  (Owing to faulty inputs from the Mic, etc,  Antimode's present internal Calibration is grossly in error) Set your Sub Levels by ear for a satisfactory sound.   You can always retest, and EQ, etc later when your new Mic arrives

Enjoy some Music!!

Best Regards,

Curt

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Thanks. Yes I have returned to the values I had set earlier by ear and that sounds fine. Calibration of the sub and the  Antimode will have to wait for a new microphone and the same is true for REW measurements to caliibrate the main speakers.
For now I want to thank Curt and Mike  - I will be back.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

184 (edited by Curt962 2019-07-30 20:12:20)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Thanks Willem, and Remember...

"All who Wander are not Lost"  smile

You're going to make it:!

Curt

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

willem wrote:

Thanks. Yes I have returned to the values I had set earlier by ear and that sounds fine. Calibration of the sub and the  Antimode will have to wait for a new microphone and the same is true for REW measurements to caliibrate the main speakers.
For now I want to thank Curt and Mike  - I will be back.

You're very welcome Willem. smile

Happy to help where possible.... Good luck friend.

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

The Dutch Antimode importer kindly sent me a new and tested microphone - free of charge (great service as always). Unfortunately the strange pattern remains of little measured output below about 110 Hz. I made a few more measurements with the Sennheiser and again no drop in response.
The peaks in all these measurements with the two microphones are quite similar, however, so for now I could of course just use those frequencies to set some filters. Even so, I may have to order a UMIK-1, because I noticed that the Sennheiser measurements are more sensitive to microphone placement, probably because this is a rather more directional mic than the ANtimode mic.
Time to get to work now.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

willem wrote:

The Dutch Antimode importer kindly sent me a new and tested microphone - free of charge (great service as always). Unfortunately the strange pattern remains of little measured output below about 110 Hz. I made a few more measurements with the Sennheiser and again no drop in response.
The peaks in all these measurements with the two microphones are quite similar, however, so for now I could of course just use those frequencies to set some filters. Even so, I may have to order a UMIK-1, because I noticed that the Sennheiser measurements are more sensitive to microphone placement, probably because this is a rather more directional mic than the ANtimode mic.
Time to get to work now.

Hi Willem.

I'm sorry you don't seem to be getting anywhere with this!
I genuinely believe that investing in the UMIK 1 will do you the world of good (maybe not in your current situation as you seem to be having issues) but for many years to come when your issues have been resolved.

I'm sure you've done your research but it's a fantastic mic for the money, measures extremely well and comes with its own serial number so you can download the flat frequency response target curve.

You can choose the 90 degree calibration file for measuring your room at your MLP with the mic pointing straight up or the zero degree file for close proximity measuring of your drivers placed within a foot of the speaker driver cone pointing horizontally.

It also serves as an SPL meter.

Go get it Willem or get it delivered. You'll see the benefits immediately.

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Sparkydude wrote:
willem wrote:

The Dutch Antimode importer kindly sent me a new and tested microphone - free of charge (great service as always). Unfortunately the strange pattern remains of little measured output below about 110 Hz. I made a few more measurements with the Sennheiser and again no drop in response.
The peaks in all these measurements with the two microphones are quite similar, however, so for now I could of course just use those frequencies to set some filters. Even so, I may have to order a UMIK-1, because I noticed that the Sennheiser measurements are more sensitive to microphone placement, probably because this is a rather more directional mic than the ANtimode mic.
Time to get to work now.

Hi Willem.

I'm sorry you don't seem to be getting anywhere with this!
I genuinely believe that investing in the UMIK 1 will do you the world of good (maybe not in your current situation as you seem to be having issues) but for many years to come when your issues have been resolved.

I'm sure you've done your research but it's a fantastic mic for the money, measures extremely well and comes with its own serial number so you can download the flat frequency response target curve.

You can choose the 90 degree calibration file for measuring your room at your MLP with the mic pointing straight up or the zero degree file for close proximity measuring of your drivers placed within a foot of the speaker driver cone pointing horizontally.

It also serves as an SPL meter.

Go get it Willem or get it delivered. You'll see the benefits immediately.

I'm eager to understand why you're not picking anything up from 110hz down though.

I hope the much learned Curt can pick through this for us.

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

189 (edited by willem 2019-08-02 11:34:14)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

I just ordered one. I too remain curious to understand why I get those anomalous readings. We may know once I have the Umik-1.
I hesitated a bit because the UMIK-1 is a one track pony. The other mic I have on my wish list is a Senheiser MKE camara mic for my wife's video hobby, but that is of nessessity a very directional microphone and useless for room response measurement. I noticed this with my Sennehiser ME-3 headset microphone. The level was ok, but results were too dependent on exact positioning.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Dr. Willem,

I share equally in your disappointment with this newest discovery.   Your Diagnostic efforts to date seemed to clearly indicate a problem with the AntiMode Mic. 

The Sennheiser does NOT exhibit this precipitous Drop Off below 100hz.   

Are these Mics sharing the same interface to the PC?   

Regards,

Curt

191 (edited by N00b 2019-08-02 14:40:37)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Hi, a n00b question: if I wan't only 3 active filters on an EQ, does it matter how the 2 others are set? Any frequency at 0 dB gain, big Q and Peak filter is OK? Or I set them at 20 kHz to be peaceful?

ADI-2 DAC - Neumann KH 310 A monitors

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Noob.  Leave the unused filters at 0db.  They'll do nothing.

Curt

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Willem,

Let's ENSURE that we haven't inadvertenty selected your Laptops INTERNAL Mic as the Measurement Mic.   The Internal Mic would exhibit the LF behavior we see. 

Curt

194 (edited by willem 2019-08-02 17:57:09)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Good idea Curt. I will check.
Well, this may be the explanation, but I am not very good at these things. When I open the screen with details on audio input and output devices it lists an internal microphone and the laptop speakers. When I add my Sennheiser with its own ADC it immediately recognizes it as a usb mic. However, when I insert the analogue output of my Antimode mic into the little 3.5 mm analogue mic input nothing changes in the list of devices and I get no system bleeb.
1 any tests that I can do without other gear?
2 where do I find a setting to change this, without blocking the internal mic next time I need that?

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

We've FOUND THE PROBLEM Willem!

I'm no Windows Guru, but unless you have an option to specify an "external mic", the Operating System will default to it's own built in Mic. 

Your new UMIK should solve this dilemna.

Best Regards,

Curt. (LIVE from the Mexican High Desert)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Ah live from the Mexican High Desert. I am very much an outdoor enthousiast: is this New Mexico or across the border?
I am sure your idea is correct. There was a manual setting to activate an external mic and it had not been turned on automatically. I have now done this, to use that Antimode mic. Unfortunately I now get an error message that the signal is too low ( some -96 dB) i.e. it does not see the microphone. That wil be the next challenge.
The Umik that I ordered will not be delivered for the next two weeks because of the holidays (I ordered it from the Dutch mini DSP site and they are obviously a rather small operation). So I now have to make do with the Antimode mic which is actualy not a bad measurement mic at all. If only I could make it recognized by Windows on my pc.....

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

The Antimode mic might need some form of power, which your laptop might not supply (I know a lot of mights), hence no level.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
HDSP9652+ADI-8AE  2X HDSP9632
Cubase pro10

198 (edited by Curt962 2019-08-03 02:28:14)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Vincent,

The Anti-Mode Mic is a very basic HiFi accessory Mic.  Phantom Power is not involved.   We had these Mics everywhere as Kids. smile   

Pushing some Buttons to tell Windows to USE this Mic would help immensely.  At Present,  Willem's PC doesn't even know this Mic exists.

Willem,  I sent you a "How-To" via PM.

Good Luck Dear Sir!   

This is not an RME problem, but as it affects Your ability to fully enjoy your ADI-2 DAC at Home...it's OUR PROBLEM as Forum Members to help you resolve. smile

Best Regards,

Curt

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

There are some basic requirements missing.
Why not using TeamViewer software (remote desktop control) to support directly?

Warm regards,
Bernhard Rother
enjoy-audio.de

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

The Antimode microphone needs a special microphone preamp.

http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/mic … -kit.shtml

Warm regards,
Bernhard Rother
enjoy-audio.de