Re: Recommended reading for EQ

A few updates:
1 yes the Antimode mic needs a special preamp and I am using that
2 Windows did indeed use the internal mic so I changed that to make it use the extrnal mic. Checqued this
3 REW was also set to use the internal mic so I had to change that
4 I did not yet calibrate the mic but that changes relatively little
5 I did some new measurements and they still show a significant drop below 100 Hz when using just the main speakers. Adding the sub fills in the realy low bass but the dropping output between say 50 and 100 Hz is what really bugs me.

So is this still kind of measurement error, given that my Sennheiser and its external soundcard gave such a nice flat response (apart from the localized peaks and dips)?
I ordered a Umik but having paid for it I received an automatic message from mini dsp in the Netherlands that due to the holiday season this will only be delivered after mid August.
One last option that I will investigate is to check the laptop sound card and see if it has some high pass setting activated. Otherwise I think I will just have to wait until the Umik arrives

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

202 (edited by bejoro 2019-08-03 08:39:54)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Do you use the Antimode microphone calibration file with REW?

Antimode Mic calibration file is offered for download here:
http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/mic … -kit.shtml

It is a plain text file. You have to import the file in REW.

The corrections are very high for this microphone especially in the bass range.

Warm regards,
Bernhard Rother
enjoy-audio.de

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

I have not yet used the calibraton file but I have it here. Yes the corrections are high but in the range 40-100 Hz the difference is only a few dB between highest and lowest. That reduces the drop a bit but not more than that. I will apply the calibration, however.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

204 (edited by willem 2019-08-03 09:27:02)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

I copied the calibration file to a word file but rew does not recognize that.
I also looked into a calibration of the soundcard but I could not get the input and output within 6 dB of each other. Far from it.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Why a Word file? It has to be saved as a plain text file named "MicAmp8033.cal".

Link to calibration file:
http://www.dspeaker.com/fileadmin/app_n … mp8033.cal

Right click.on the link and select "Save to" in the context menu. It depends on the browser you are using.

Of course it will not solve the 20 dB drop below 100 Hz but it is necessary to get your measurements equipment right.

Warm regards,
Bernhard Rother
enjoy-audio.de

206 (edited by willem 2019-08-03 10:21:22)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Did that, but I am now even more confused becasue it says level is too low and I  am not sure what graph I am getting. Is this a graph of the sound card?

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

willem wrote:

Did that, but I am now even more confused becasue it says level is too low and I  am not sure what graph I am getting. Is this a graph of the sound card?

Increase the gain on the pre-amp?

Open the SPL and LEVELS tabs and play some pink noise.
Increase the amp gain until you reach 75dB.
Fine tune from there then you're set to start your measuring.

That's what I would do anyway.

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

I will give it another try this evening but for now I am inclined to wait until my UMIK-1 arrives and in the meantime spend my energy on trying to figure out how to implement the rme filter settings. I have at least two frequencies where all measurements show that I have nasty peaks.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

209 (edited by Curt962 2019-08-04 18:23:48)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Willem,

Apologies for disappearing for a bit, but Yesterday was a long travel day, and my Brain has yet to fully Re-Boot.  smile

* Some might argue that my Brain has NEVER booted up correctly.   That Point is duly noted. smile

Pg 21 of the ADI-2DAC User Manual explains Operation of the Five (5) EQ Filters.     Seems a bit daunting at first glance but trust that once you've done it, the settings become almost intuitive. 

Best Regards,
Curt

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

I went on a long bicycle ride instead and then continued with trimming the hedges, but I will probably give it a shot tomorrow.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

I succesfully set two filters, at 25 and 40 Hz. Al measurements, however problematic, showed peaks there. The sound is cleaner and leaner -maybe too lean now. I might reduce the filter gain a bit, waiting for my Umik to arrive to do all this properly. What I could not find out thus far is the Q value. What does the actual number mean?

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

The higher the Q factor, the narrower the bandwidth.
Google is full of information "EQ q factor".
You also see it on the display what happens with bigger and smaller Q-factor values.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Cubase 9.5, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Got it. Thanks

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

214 (edited by Curt962 2019-08-06 10:22:24)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

That's Good News Willem.    The 40hz Peak is a common Room Mode that suggests your Room has a 14ft (+/-) dimension.   A bit of Cut at that Freq would indeed be helpful as you've observed. 

The 25hz Peak is likely to be a bit broader than you see, and will be a function of Room Gain.   This is most easily addressed with a Room Gain Compensation Filter which is easily implemented with your ADI-2 DAC.    My Subs internal PEQ does that for me.   I set the Freq at 31hz, and Slope off at -12db/Oct below.     Linearizes the LF behavior quite well.    Your ADI-2 DAC can perform this same function.  Recommended to you Sir!

Best Regards,

Curt

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

That is indeed about the width of the room. Similarly, the 60 Hz or so peak would correspond with the heigth of the room (just over 10 feet). Mind you, these are peaks in the response of the main speakers, since the sub seems to be equalized quite succesfully by the Antimode 8033. And that is precisely why I wanted the filters of the ADI-2, so I could equalize the main speakers as well.
Anyway, the rest will have to wait until I receive my UMIK.
Thanks for this observation.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Willem,

To avoid confusion, please note that you will need to use B1 to implement the Room Gain Comp Filter I described.   Simply put your 40hz Peak Filter in B2.      Voilá!!

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Thanks - yes I know (it took me a little while to figure out how to do this): I have to use the high pass version of the filter instead of the peak filter.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

The Umik just arrived. A quick test without using the calibration file and with the wind howling around the house showed that with the subwoofer I now measure a healthy and even perhaps slightly too large output from 110 Hz all the way down to 20 Hz and below.  So there was indeed a measurement error of an as yet unknown kind.
I am not sure I will have time today for proper measurements but at least I now have the tools.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

This is Great News Willem!!!

NOW We can move forward.  smile

Curt

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

willem wrote:

The Umik just arrived. A quick test without using the calibration file and with the wind howling around the house showed that with the subwoofer I now measure a healthy and even perhaps slightly too large output from 110 Hz all the way down to 20 Hz and below.  So there was indeed a measurement error of an as yet unknown kind.
I am not sure I will have time today for proper measurements but at least I now have the tools.

Yes! Result... smile

Exciting times ahead..... We look forward to your measuring sessions....

Mike.

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

221 (edited by zaurux 2019-08-11 16:55:46)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Posted on french HCFR forum with MMM (Microphone Moving Measure - Rew : RTA record with 260 average..).

Red : before correction and green, with correction.
Without passiv corection you must correct only under 400hz to conserve speakers identity.
It's a soft correction. You can't replace a bass-trap.. be careful.

In my case : 5 bands with RME and a  hi-pass 36hz/36db with Roon.

  • 48hz / -12 / Q9.9

  • 130hz / 4 / Q2

  • 280 / -3,5 / Q2.4

  • 430 / 3,5 / Q5

  • 1.8khz / 3 / Q2,6

And even, a cumulative bass reduction wit Bass/Treeble settings (48hz / -3 / 1.4).

Room : 7m x 5m x 3m with wooden floor (concrete slab under speakers).

https://i.postimg.cc/1fwXDxTw/legende-beton.jpg

Define Hefa

ROON on Lenovo > Allo USBridge > RME ADI-2 Dac > (A-GD Master-1) 2 mono A-GD P3  / KEF Q700

222 (edited by Curt962 2019-08-11 19:06:59)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

There's that Pesky 40-60hz Mode that Plagues so many home Listening Rooms.

Thanks for the Post Zaurux!

We're trying to make this Thread a Resource for the many Home Users that Struggle (often unknowingly) with similar issues.   Your Data adds greatly to the Database. Merci Beaucoup!  smile

EQ is often a best "First Aid" for such problems,  but the Value of Acoustic Treatment cannot be Overstated!   Benefits that extend considerably beyond mere Amplitude issues.

Then?  We get into "Wife Acceptance Factor"  which can be a Dark Science unto itself. 

Thanks for Posting!

Curt

*  EDIT:   I Like your High Pass Filter as a hedge against Room Gain effects. Though I believe 36db/Oct may be a bit aggressive.  Room Gain effects normally creep into the Picture at about 12db/Oct.   Perhaps you could experiment with a less steep filter, and enjoy a bit of added LF performance without penalty.

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

willem wrote:

The Umik just arrived. A quick test without using the calibration file and with the wind howling around the house showed that with the subwoofer I now measure a healthy and even perhaps slightly too large output from 110 Hz all the way down to 20 Hz and below.  So there was indeed a measurement error of an as yet unknown kind.
I am not sure I will have time today for proper measurements but at least I now have the tools.

Morning Willem.

How are you getting on with the new UMIK 1?

Have you had time to do any further measurements?

We are all waiting on baited breath to see your new results!! smile

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

224 (edited by willem 2019-08-17 17:35:00)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

I have primarly been busy with sorting out the various cables and pondering the functionality of a master slave power strip. I received it today and got it working. Just the DAC as a master was not quite enough to switch the slaves reliably, but with the extra 1.5 watt consumed by the Chromecast Audio their combined electrical consumption turns out to be enough to turn on and off the slaves.
My system includes a few other small units like my Pro-ject phono amp and adc and these are now also switched off when not in use. I have calculated that this will save some 90 kilowatt per year. This will pay back the cost of the power strip in one year. And it will contribute a small little bit to a better environment.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

225 (edited by Curt962 2019-08-18 23:16:06)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Hello All.

Keeping Sparky's Thread on Topic...Let's Focus upon the SOUND aspect your set up Willem.   Therein lies your answers in so far as Music enjoyment is concermed.  Your ADI-2 DAC was designed for such.

Curt

Let's keep it real Folks...  smile

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EjmtSkl53h4

226 (edited by willem 2019-08-19 19:32:42)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

I have been quite busy. Yesterday I discovered that one of my three optical sources (the Panasonic plasma tv) going into my auto switch is not nearly as loud as the other two ( the CCA and the Bluray player). This needs investigating.
But I did start with the REW measurement. Unfortunately REW did not adopt the calibration file. I need to figure out how and why, but did not yet have the time to hunt for the cause or look on the web to find what I did wrong. Tomorrow there will be another day.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

227 (edited by Curt962 2019-08-19 19:52:21)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Willem,

Possibly an internal Vol. Setting in your Panasonic is causing the Vol. disparity.  Check it's settings.

*Edit:

Mike (Sparkydude) shared this Video.  It's worthwhile viewing, and gives some Real-World insights as to the degree in which the Room influences the Sound you hear! 

https://youtu.be/cTnituQu8ig

Curt

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Yes I know I have to look to see if there is some setting on the tv, but finding such things can take ages.
I am convinced the room has a big influence on the sound. My experience with how the Antimode cleaned up the sound of my subwoofer was what inspired me to use the equalization of the DAC to do something similar with the main speakers. I will get there and will try to give it a shot tomorrow if there is no noise from nearby construction.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

willem wrote:

I have been quite busy. Yesterday I discovered that one of my three optical sources (the Panasonic plasma tv) going into my auto switch is not nearly as loud as the other two ( the CCA and the Bluray player). This needs investigating.
But I did start with the REW measurement. Unfortunately REW did not adopt the calibration file. I need to figure out how and why, but did not yet have the time to hunt for the cause or look on the web to find what I did wrong. Tomorrow there will be another day.

Hi Willem.

Glad you're getting back on track if not for an error with the calibration file. That'll be something and nothing that, just a simple error.

Oh and there's nothing worse than settling down for a good REW session only for background noise to rear it's ugly head... sad

As Curt has suggested, you're issue with the Optical will be embedded within the menus.
I have an amp controlling all my inputs so everything has its volume set to fixed so the amp controls volume.
The RME is also set to fixed at zero dB as, the amp is doing the work.

You'll figure it out soon enough...

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

All...

Let's keep Sparkydude's Thread "On Topic" 

The original intent was to understand the effects of the Room Acoustic, Speaker Placement, and Seating Position.   These are all extraordinarily valid concerns, while TV Settings, Power Strips, etc. are not. Whatever other extraneous matters that arise are perhaps best served by one's own diagnostics, or dealt with via a new Thread.   Yes?

The "Room" is our Challenge.  Let's stay focused.

Curt

231 (edited by willem 2019-08-20 16:50:48)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

I am now giving it another shot, but I face two issues.
1 I set the loudness function but I cannot find it back in the menu structure to turn it off for the measurements.
2 I think I uploaded a calibration file, but when I do a measurement REW says MIC/Meter No Cal and on the line underneath it says soundcard: with the number of the calibration file. Am I using the calibration file or not? Or is the Umik recognized as a soundcard because it is a usb mic?

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

to 1- you didn't tell which device you own and didn't put it into your signature ...
Therefore the general answer: see manual, chapter "overview menu structure"
You find loudness there "loud and clear".

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Cubase 9.5, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

233 (edited by willem 2019-08-20 18:34:24)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

ADI-2 DAC fs
I am afraid I find the menu structure quite impenetrable. I may be dumn, but my digital experience goes back to the age of punchcards. I love my ADI, but the interface really is a challenge. When I entere the I/O menu I can get down to the subpage 12.1 but I do not see how I can get to subpage 12.3.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

So.

If you press the I/O button on your front panel you'll be presented with your Input/Output menu.
If you look at the top right hand corner of the display, you'll see a small number 1 and directly below that, a small number 2.
Number 1 represents the main menu and number 2 represents the sub-menu contained within that main menu.

You'll notice that the two rotary dials are numbered 1 & 2.
These rotary dials directly correspond to the numbers 1 & 2 you see on your screen.

When you see these numbers, it means there is a further option to explore within that menu.

Ok, so in the I/O menu, because there is a little number 1, it means you can rotate the dial marked (1) either clockwise or anticlockwise to see further menus.
The same applies when you see a number (2).
Rotating dial 2 as above will allow you to scroll through the sub-menu.

Now, you'll notice rotary dial 1 & 2 also have small arrows next to them.
If you push dial 2, that will move the selector within the menu downwards.
Pushing 1 will move you back up.

When you're within a sub-menu, rotating rotary dial 2 allows you to change the setting you currently have highlighted. This is how you select certain options.
The RME will remember not only what you selected but the menu you were in at the time.

You really need to play around with it to get familiar with it.

Because I have my volume set to 0dB and "locked" (because I use my amp to control volume), I do not see a "Loudness" function.
You'll need to have a little play around with it aswel as checking the manual to help you further.

Personally, I see "loudness" as a function only to be used at night to prevent waking children or upsetting neighbours.
I never use loudness at all.
Unless it has a function within RME that I'm not familiar with so somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

I hope this helps Willem.

We all want to see you be successful at this. smile

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Quickly.

You're calibration file will be available to you from the UMIK website.
Go into downloads, type in your unique microphone number (printed on the bottom of the mic).
You will then be able to download both the 0 degree and 90 degree calibration files.
Store them both in a folder you'll remember.

When you load up REW, it will auto detect your UMIK and ask if you want to upload a calibration file.
Click Yes.
Upload the 90 degree file as this is used to measure in room response.
The 0 degree file is for near field direct speaker measurement.

Hope this helps.

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

236 (edited by willem 2019-08-20 20:08:58)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

OK, I managed to turn the loudness off. Thanks for the instruction. I have now made two measurements, with and without the subwoofer, but I don't know if REW has used the calibration file or not. It did not ask for it, so I went to the preferences screen. With the subwoofer on I have some five peaks below 200 Hz, so that will be an issue, given that I only have three filters. The main speakers go down to just under 40 Hz, and below that the sub takes over.  The sub is equalized by the Antimode, and you can see that it follows the line of the main speakers quite closely, but at a higher level because the output of the sub and the main speakers is summed. In other words, the peaks below 40 Hz are caused by the main speakers and not by the sub. What is also obvious is that there is a lift below about 100 Hz or even higher, both with and without the. Reducing the bass peaks will obviously reduce the level of this lift, but I may have to use the tone control a bit as well.
I may want to use a pair of Harrison labs FMODs to act as a high pass filter below 50 Hz to reduce the problems caused by the peaks of the main speakers, and particularly the one at 25 Hz.
I will not have time tomorrow but I may have time on Thursday to discover how I can post the graphs that I now have.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

I'm off to bed now mate but I'll try to address some of your issues tomorrow if I get chance.
I highly recommend you watch one or two of the many REW videos on YouTube just to refresh your memory on its set up and use.
If you feel you would benefit from it of course..... smile

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

238 (edited by Curt962 2019-08-21 03:43:53)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Wow!   Hat's Off for Sparkydude!!  Good on Ya Mate!   While the Users Manual is ALWAYS the Definitive Guide, your Expert Tutorial was indicative that Sparky has been studying his ADI-2 DAC!  smile

Willem,

Without seeing your Measurement Data, we're at a disadvantage.   Might I suggest we do a Level Matching Exercise to get our Subs, and Mains playing at the SAME level (individually) before we formulate Opinions, etc.    Absent this fundamental procedure, our subsequent Measurement Data is Questionable.

Start with Basics, and we work from there.

Good Luck Doctor, and remember that this is FUN! and Paves a path toward greater enjoyment, and understanding.   Knowledge is Power.

Curt

*Sub/Mains Level Matching:

Play a Cal signal (Pink Noise) through the mains ONLY at 75-80db.   Without changing anything...play that SAME SIGNAL through the SUBS ONLY.  Adjust the Sub levels to match that recorded by the Mains.   Now our Mains and Subs are on the "Same Page" Levels-Wise.  Regardless of what you might be told, this cannot be done by Ear.   Period.

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

I know I have to post the graphs because without them discussion is not easy. I tried to use the French website that was suggested but I received an error message that it does not work with Firefox.
I also know that I can only balance the levels of main speakers and sub by measuring. My current measurements already show that there is an issue, even though the high level below 100 Hz also shows when I measure only the main speakers. In short, I have to sort out the main speakers first.
And I have to figure out if my current measurements have used the calibration file or not.
But today will be a busy day.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Willem,

Plz email me the .mdat file from your most recent test.   

Thx,

Curt

241

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

New Willem's measures, with and without sub. smile

https://reho.st/self/03fd3837ae359a4937d95402758b8056e4c15923.jpg

https://reho.st/self/cbb9ffd9a92b2e52f91a7f08549775cd65047d9d.jpg

ADI-2 DAC - Neumann KH 310 A monitors

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Thanks for the Assist Noob!

Willem,

It's seems that you're gaining the Upper Hand on Matters!   Nice overall plot.   If you must however, you could simply decrease Bass a few db via the Front Panel encoder, and be happy. smile     

Curt

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

N00b wrote:

New Willem's measures, with and without sub. smile

https://reho.st/self/03fd3837ae359a4937d95402758b8056e4c15923.jpg

https://reho.st/self/cbb9ffd9a92b2e52f91a7f08549775cd65047d9d.jpg

Nice, if you manage to get the 100hz bump at the same level as the 300hz with a low shelving eq it will be perfect. But it should be fine now too, unless to your ears it sounds to bass heavy. In the end your ears rule.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
HDSP9652+ADI-8AE  2X HDSP9632
Cubase pro10

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

vinark wrote:
N00b wrote:

New Willem's measures, with and without sub. smile

https://reho.st/self/03fd3837ae359a4937d95402758b8056e4c15923.jpg

https://reho.st/self/cbb9ffd9a92b2e52f91a7f08549775cd65047d9d.jpg

Nice, if you manage to get the 100hz bump at the same level as the 300hz with a low shelving eq it will be perfect. But it should be fine now too, unless to your ears it sounds to bass heavy. In the end your ears rule.

Yes!!

Well done Willem! Those are some jealousy inducing graphs you've produced there! big_smile

I could only wish for that kind of linearity in my graphs but your room is more than twice the size of mine so I guess it's to be expected.

If this was me, I would look at the lowest dB point at which your speakers are playing down to (around 68dB).
I would then increase your levels to the point where your lowest reading is where you like to set it to.
I always get my SPL to 75dB so, using that as an example, I would increase the SPL by 7dB so that the next to you measure, you're lowest point is now at 75dB.

The reason for this is that it is much better (easier) to EQ peaks than dips (nulls) so therefore bringing every frequency above your preferred listening level, your DSP will have an easier time of it.

As Curt has mentioned, your bass region is a little bit hot so dialling your subs down a notch or two will alleviate that and again, make EQing easier.

If anyone disagrees with this approach then please, by all means, chime in... smile

RME ADI-2 - Spendor A7's - Arcam SR250 - BK XXLS400 x 2 - ZEN MINI MK3 with LPSU (as a ROON core)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Why am I the only one that doesn't have Willem's Room Dims??  smile

Closer inspection of Willem's Plots suggests Room Gain is at work.   As Vinark commented,   It indeed seems that a simple "Room Gain Comp" Shelf Filter would work Miracles!   

After that Willem?   Ride your Bike to the Kneippe for a few Celebratory Biers!! 

Good Job!!

Curt

246 (edited by rpgroman 2019-08-22 20:05:02)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

O.K....so newbie question here.  I've looked and looked in the manual and I can't find a symbol chart for what type of filter equates to each symbol in the PEQ filter. There's talk of shelf filters, etc. and I'm not exactly sure which filter symbol corresponds to what filter type.  Can somebody help me with this? Thank you.

247 (edited by Curt962 2019-08-22 20:21:09)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

RP,

As you're setting up a filter in Bands 1 & 5 (only) you will see a 3 pointed Symbol. It looks like a Sideways "Y"    That's the filter characteristic we're yammering on about. This is also explained very clearly in the User Manual (Page 23) as well.  Hope that helps!

Curt

248 (edited by willem 2019-08-22 20:22:36)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Thank you all for your help and encouragements. Yes there was a bass lift that needed to be addressed. Since it was also visible on the graph without the sub, it was not so much the sub level that was responsible, but room gain. Therefore, I reduced bass using the tone control, with a 150 Hz corner frequency. This brought almost the entire bass region nicely at the same level as the frequencies above. I also inserted filters at 25 Hz, 40 Hz, 93 Hz and 300 Hz. I repeated the measurements with two slightly different mike locations, and it was obvious that the 300 Hz filter was at the wrong frequency as soon as I moved the mike. In short, filtering is fine at lower frequencies but not if well above the Schroeder frequency: the listening position simply becomes too small.
I will want to tweak the filter settings a bit more, but the sound is already a lot cleaner and less boomy. One thing I wil certainly do is investigate the potential benefits of setting a high pass/low cut filter at 25 Hz instead of the current peak filter, because right now there is still an undesirable peak around 12 Hz.
Yes the room is pretty large at 4.2 meter wide, 3.1 meter high and 8 and 12 meter long.
What still puzles me are the various smoothing settings for the graphs: I can see that you can smooth the graphs up to the point where you don't seem to have any issues any more, but what is a sensible level of smoothing, and how is it done (I am after all an economic historian who does quite a bit of time series analysis)? I ask because I could not replicate the particular smoothings that Noob published here.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

Willem,  "Smoothing" allows us display a Plot that is more representative (IMO) of what our Ear is able to actually discern.   It is a way to better see the ACTUAL Forest IN SPITE of the Trees. smile

250 (edited by N00b 2019-08-22 21:01:50)

Re: Recommended reading for EQ

New Willem's measurements...

https://reho.st/self/9a5c9b6c0bbded179a4e9b97e60de3cc3c5cb06d.jpg

https://reho.st/self/3841932ca6b4371ef5d0356d2b2b7214fca23b23.jpg

And for the smoothing: "Graph" menu, 1/3 smoothing. wink

ADI-2 DAC - Neumann KH 310 A monitors