• Registered: 2017-05-17
  • Posts: 7

Topic: Another Digital Noise / Ground Loop Question (Babyface)

Hey guys,

I've spent a fair amount of time already researching this problem and even talking to RME support, with no success.

I am experiencing digital / computer noise when monitoring via TotalMix through the AN 1/2 inputs. The noise responds to my mouse movements and is high pitched. The noise occurs even when the breakout cable is unplugged and I'm simply listening with my headphones. Obviously when I try to record with the AN 1/2 inputs the noise to signal ratio is just completely unacceptable.

I have a very simple setup. It's just the Babyface -> Desktop Computer. I'm using a Corsair CX500M PSU. I don't even have a GPU.

Things I've tried which seemed to work for other people:

- using a PCI-E USB card to plug the Babyface into instead of the native motherboard USB ports
- tinkering with the outlets I'm plugged into - I unplugged everything in my room except the Desktop PC to see if that would affect the noise - I even tried witching from surge protectors to wall outlets to no effect

My next step is to purchase some kind of hum eliminator, if that is recommended.

I did purchase this Babyface used from eBay, so it's not out of the question that there's something wrong with it. I am considering returning it (I have a 30 day warranty) and continue to use my Scarlett 2i2, which gave me none of these problems.

Any ideas?

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: Another Digital Noise / Ground Loop Question (Babyface)

Input noise is unusual. Try some different USB cables.

Also try to switch the Windows power profile to "Power Saver" (just for testing). Mainboard VRM induced noise levels usually vary with CPU clock frequency (lower clocks = lower noise level). Also try to disable CPU power-saving C-states in BIOS,
C1E is one contender for this.

Does the noise happen when you only have the Babyface connected + headphones, but *without* inputs?

  • Registered: 2017-05-17
  • Posts: 7

Re: Another Digital Noise / Ground Loop Question (Babyface)

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Input noise is unusual. Try some different USB cables.

Tried the Scarlett 2i2 cable as well, no impact.

Also try to switch the Windows power profile to "Power Saver" (just for testing). Mainboard VRM induced noise levels usually vary with CPU clock frequency (lower clocks = lower noise level). Also try to disable CPU power-saving C-states in BIOS,
C1E is one contender for this.

Just did all of this, including disabling all the C-states in BIOS. No impact unfortunately.

Does the noise happen when you only have the Babyface connected + headphones, but *without* inputs?

The noise happens regardless. I should also say that I tested it with a laptop, and there is NO noise, so the problem HAS to be my computer. Could it just be the PSU or the motherboard? Unfortunately replacing those is a bit of a hassle, but if that's what I have to do..

Would you recommend a hum eliminator? Some people seem to have good results with one.

Here's a recording of the noise:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/698au5am7nuj8 … e.wav?dl=0

4 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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Re: Another Digital Noise / Ground Loop Question (Babyface)

Can you try the BF with an external power supply?

> I have a very simple setup. It's just the Babyface -> Desktop Computer.

There is something missing. You must have the analog outputs connected to whatever amp (else how to hear the signal), which then establishes the ground loop.

That's why Timur asked for ONLY connected headphones - no inputs, and not the analog outputs to your whatever amp. It is quite unusual to then hear computer noise in the phones as there is no ground loop possible anymore.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2017-05-17
  • Posts: 7

Re: Another Digital Noise / Ground Loop Question (Babyface)

Can you try the BF with an external power supply?

I'll purchase one and report back here with results.

There is something missing. You must have the analog outputs connected to whatever amp (else how to hear the signal), which then establishes the ground loop.

I assure you, the ONLY device that is connected are my headphones. The breakout cable is NOT connected.

As you can see in TotalMix, the AN 1/2 inputs are registering the digital noise.

http://imgur.com/a/SdAYs

6 Reply by vinark (edited by vinark 2017-05-18 15:56:02)

  • vinark
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Re: Another Digital Noise / Ground Loop Question (Babyface)

Tried different usb cable and different usb port? If you have a powered usb hub try that too.
And try disabling the cpu's c states in the bios.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

7 Reply by Timur Born (edited by Timur Born 2017-05-18 16:13:20)

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: Another Digital Noise / Ground Loop Question (Babyface)

Hm, input noise in TMFX when nothing is connected?! If the external power supply doesn't help then try to find another desktop computer to check the Babyface, maybe it's broken after all (even when it works on the laptop).

  • Registered: 2017-05-17
  • Posts: 7

Re: Another Digital Noise / Ground Loop Question (Babyface)

try to find another desktop computer to check the Babyface

Used my friends... no issues! How frustrating!

I've ordered an external power supply and will be trying that out in a few days.

Thanks for the help everyone.

  • Registered: 2012-04-15
  • Posts: 90

Re: Another Digital Noise / Ground Loop Question (Babyface)

Is there an internal soundcard that can be disabled or muted?

I've heard mouse motion related buzzing from cheap internal soundcards that resolves when you either mute the internal card's output or disable the device.

  • Registered: 2017-05-17
  • Posts: 7

Re: Another Digital Noise / Ground Loop Question (Babyface)

Is there an internal soundcard that can be disabled or muted?

I have no internal soundcard. I went ahead and disabled all the audio devices except for the Babyface for good measure and that didn't help either.

  • Registered: 2017-05-17
  • Posts: 7

Re: Another Digital Noise / Ground Loop Question (Babyface)

Hi everyone,

I have continued to troubleshoot this issue and have discovered something interesting.

The ground loop does in fact exist with the Scarlett 2i2. The reason I never discovered this is because it is only audible if I turn the gain ALL the way up, which is never necessary, considering my signals coming in are plenty loud at about 10%-20% of gain.

The issue with the Babyface, is that the ground loop is audible immediately. The signal / noise ration is unacceptable, whereas with the Scarlett 2i2 it is completely unnoticeable.

Is there some kind of setting I'm missing that would help remedy this in TMFX?

  • vinark
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Re: Another Digital Noise / Ground Loop Question (Babyface)

Dud you try disabling the power saving options of your cpu? They are one of the known causes for this.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

13 Reply by knuckle47 (edited by knuckle47 2017-05-21 15:00:53)

  • From: North Eastern USA
  • Registered: 2016-03-29
  • Posts: 104

Re: Another Digital Noise / Ground Loop Question (Babyface)

Several years ago I had that very exact problem.  Each movement of the mouse caused a swishing sound in the monitors whether it was up-and-down or left and right it was extremely constant. And despite trying to isolate it with every power supply I had available and sources of power, the ultimate answer for me was to run a quality extension cord  from a completely different power source to the back of my monitors and feed the power from that supply. And it solves the problem for me. In fact while I have changed over the computer ,  The interface and several other components over the last two years this fix remains.

Worth a try?

Babyface Pro, UFX+ via Thunderbolt, Win 10, Cubase 9.5 Pro, Asus Z270 i7700k Guitarist-1961
  • Registered: 2017-05-17
  • Posts: 7

Re: Another Digital Noise / Ground Loop Question (Babyface)

Dud you try disabling the power saving options of your cpu?

One of the first things I tried, no luck.

the ultimate answer for me was to run a quality extension cord  from a completely different power source to the back of my monitors and feed the power from that supply.

My problem sounds a little different (I get noise just from the audio interface + headphones), but I'm hoping the fix is the same. After I get an external power supply for the Babyface I'm going to try something like what you describe.

  • cyrano
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Re: Another Digital Noise / Ground Loop Question (Babyface)

Cases like this can have a number of reasons. There isn't one solution, I'm afraid.

I'd check grounding between mobo and case first, personally. It's also rare, but I've known that to make everything noisy.

MB Pro - 2 X FireFace 400, FF800 & DigiFace USB
ADAT gear: Korg, Behri, Fostex, Alesis...

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16 Reply by christianwn (edited by christianwn 2017-05-24 13:24:35)

  • Registered: 2016-03-10
  • Posts: 52

Re: Another Digital Noise / Ground Loop Question (Babyface)

Use a di box or similar preamp with ground lift. Yes it sucks to have to ground lift everything, but that will help. You can/should also ground your babyface, that will also help.
I got best result grounding my UCX, then using ground lift on my preamp.
For this grounding you need to be a little creative. I just attached a ground cable to the chassis of the UCX on one of the the screws. This goes to a main socket with only earth connected.
You could make such a cable between you computer and the babyface too, chassis to chassis.

This will work and I am just a little curious why RME has not put any of their good knowledge into this matter. They should have grounded their external sound cards, or made that an option.

Regards

17 Reply by knuckle47 (edited by knuckle47 2017-05-24 23:35:48)

  • From: North Eastern USA
  • Registered: 2016-03-29
  • Posts: 104

Re: Another Digital Noise / Ground Loop Question (Babyface)

This brings up my 1980's ham radio exams with capacitive reactance and back then we would attach an independent flat braided ground wire to nearly everything.  A very good practice that has faded away with the addition of the 3-prong electric plug wink

Babyface Pro, UFX+ via Thunderbolt, Win 10, Cubase 9.5 Pro, Asus Z270 i7700k Guitarist-1961
  • Hyvve
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Re: Another Digital Noise / Ground Loop Question (Babyface)

Did you manage to get it fixed Loganrgabriel?