1 Topic by Audio Processing (edited by Audio Processing 2016-05-11 09:39:49)

  • Registered: 2011-09-18
  • Posts: 10

Topic: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

I noticed strange spikes on the real time peak meter of the Cubase 8.5.15 VST Performance with no project loaded. The spikes can reach the limit while the CPU meter is at 2% and lead to audio crackles with a project loaded.

I spent a day to find the culprit (changed settings in BIOS, ...) and it is the Digicheck process.
"RME's sophisticated tool DIGICheck operates like an ASIO host, using a special technique to access playback channels directly." "DIGICheck 5.81 operates as multi-client ASIO host, therefore can be used in parallel to any software, with both inputs and outputs"
"DIGICheck DSP: Level meter in hardware, peak- and RMS calculation". But not for Totalyser which use ASIO and is very important in my workflow.

I found these Cubase VST Best Settings
•    Multi  Processing activated;
•    ASIO Guard Normal activated;
•    Steinberg Audio Power Scheme activated.

I noticed that the spikes disappeared when I deactivate Multi Processing. But this is not an option to use only one core of a 1000$ 8x2 cores CPU.
Notes: The spikes are manageable with latency greater or equal to 512 samples and level meters set to hardware.

I can't do further testings because it is beyond my skills.
I chose RME for the quality of the driver which are constantly maintained (I have a Multiface, RME9652 and choose the Babyface Pro to wait for the UFX+).
But also for Digicheck which is an important part in my workflow and because I thought it had no impact on the ASIO performance as it is hardware DSP compute. This is not the case.
So my questions are:
Did you notice this misbehavior?
Do you have recommended settings?
Do you have an update planned to use Digicheck's "special technique" with Multi Processing?

Windows 10, RME Babyface Pro, i75960x, ASUS x99 Deluxe Motherboard, 16Go DDR4 3200MHz, NMVe Samsung 950 Pro on M.2 port as system disk, 2x1To SSDs SATA.

2 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

Driver version? Tried different MMCSS settings in the BF Pro Settings dialog?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2011-09-18
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Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

Babyface Pro plugged on a USB 3.0 port
Driver Date: 13.04.16
Driver version: 1.091
Hardware Revision: 101
Digicheck: 5.81
Enable MMCSS for ASIO: I tried and it changes nothing at least with no project loaded. I will do further deep testing with heavy projects.

I put other drivers/softwares versions as I suspect a multiprocessor management problem.
Windows 10 version 1511 (OS version 10586.218)
- Graphics for best performance
- Power scheme for best performance
- Optimized for applications (not background process)
ASUS X99 BIOS 2101 06.01.2016
Tweaks:
- Internal soundcard: Disable and all related services and process in windows
- xHCI Hand Off: Disable
- Enhanced Intel Speedstep: Disable
- CPU C_States: Disable

Chipset:
Intel C610 series/X99 Chipset USB Enhanced controller: 10.1.2.8
Intel C610 series/X99 Chipset SMBus controller: 10.1.2.10

NVidia GT710
Driver Version: 364.72

Cubase Pro 8.5.15

LatencyMon
No problem
hard pagefault: mainly LatencyMon so...

  • vinark
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Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

Not saying this will help, but should be Optimized for background process. This prioritizes the asio driver.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2011-09-18
  • Posts: 10

Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

Thank for your answer.
The trick to 'optimize for background process' worked for XP and Windows 7.
But on my new Workstation with Windows 10 Pro 64bit, I noticed less spikes with 'optimize for applications', but it doesn't solve the problem...

Is it a USB problem ?
Is it a Windows 10 Multi Processing problem ?
Is it a Steinberg/ASIO/ASIO guard problem ?
Is it an Intel chipset problem ?
Is it a RME problem ?

How can I troubleshoot ?

All the best,

Thomas

  • vinark
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Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

an Idea...Open device manager and set priority for digicheck to low or lower.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2011-09-18
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Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

Thank you very much Vincent and Matthias for your feedback.
Forgive my long delay in writing. I spent a lot of time debugging my brand new PC.

I loose a lot of time with the 'Cubase Performance Meter', changing WIndows 10 and BIOS settings back and forth ...
So I changed my strategy and create the same project for Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper and Ableton Live, This project mixes VSTis and Audio tracks with plugins and the RME' driver buffer was at low Latency (48 to 96 samples).
In Reaper no glitches, no spikes. CPU consumption is linear and proportional to number of Plugins.
In Cubase, the performance meter shows something strange and complex (ASIO, ASIO Guard, ...). The CPU consumption is more logarithmic with the increase in the number of plugins. Sometimes the average load is greater than the real time peaks. And there are real time spikes.
In Ableton it is hard to monitor the real time processing...

At the end Reaper can handle a bit more tracks compared with Cubase but it is similar.
Cubase is very sensitive to ISRs, DPC, Hard pagefault, ...
Digicheck' Totalyser increases the Cubase' real time spikes.

So the RME driver is not the culprit. It works perfectly well with Reaper.

So I tried to find the bottleneck.
First I use a SAMSUNG 950 Pro M.2 NVMe as a SYSTEM Disk.
NB: It is very hard to install Windows 10 on it and to set the BIOS to boot from it...
The driver in the device manager was a Microsoft generic one, so I updated it with the SAMSUNG one.
I still have NVIDIA drivers latency problems and plan to switch to a RADEON.

Yours Sincerely,

Thomas

  • Registered: 2016-01-16
  • Posts: 7

Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

I have had similar problems ever since I got my new PC and the problems just recently got bad enough where I had to try and figure it out.  I tried every recommended optimization of BIOS and Windows 10 out there and nothing worked.  Like you, no problems in LatencyMon and the crackling occurred at any buffer setting though it was much worse at 256 and below.

I have a similar setup to yours.  RME UFX, Win 10, Cubase Pro 8.5 Samsung NVMe drive and an ASUS mobo.  The drive I just added last week and that's when everything seemed to get worse.

Anyway, to cut to the chase after 12 hours+ yesterday of trying to solve this, I believe I fixed it this morning.  The problem was the USB port it was plugged into.  It was in a USB 3.1 port and I moved it to a USB 2/1.1 port and it instantly was better.  Not only no crackling but way less level on the ASIO performance meters in Cubase. I also had to move my Razer keyboard to a new port so not sure if that had anything to do it with it but definitely appears to be a USB port issue,

9 Reply by MC

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Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

Indeed it is always a good idea to try all the USB ports that you have on your computer. One may make a difference.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2017-02-24
  • Posts: 5

Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

Hello,
I am a new RME user, I recently bought my first RME product, a BabyFacePro. Unfortunately the experience so far is not the best since I have the exact same problem as described in this thread. Here is my setup:
-    Windows 10 64 bits
-    Gigabyte Z170 motherboard
-    Intel Core i7 6700K
-    Video onboard (Intel)
-    16 GB RAM
-    Samsumg NVMe 950 Pro SSD (system drive)
-    Cubase 9.0 64 bits
-    BabyFace Pro with firmware 101

Following the post of user “tonydesare2”, I investigated the USB path but no matter what I do (changing USB ports (I tried them all), replacing USB cable, disconnecting almost everything connected to the USB ports) I still have those Real time spikes in Cubase VST performance (even when Cubase is idle).
I also tried Cubase with two different and much cheaper USB audio interfaces (“NI Komplete Audio 6” and Focusrite Scarlett 2i2) and it runs with no problem on Cubase 9.0 both on USB2 and USB3 ports….
I also spent several hours trying different changes in the BIOS with no success. It is very frustrating since I bought this interface based on good reviews regarding driver stability and also its very low latency capabilities. But so far this interface simply cannot work on my Win10-Cubase9 system… I am really starting to feel desperate… Any idea?

Thanks!

  • ramses
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Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

> Following the post of user “tonydesare2”
URL as reference please.

> BabyFace Pro with firmware 101
Which driver version to be sure ?

> Windows 10 64 bits
What built number ?

Could it be a Cubase or Cubase settings related problem ?
https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=77885

Can you post a screenshot how big the spikes are ?
What is the result of this spikes ?
Audio loss in projects ?

What if you try another DAW, I am not sure whether Reaper also has something like an ASIO load display functionality.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2017-02-24
  • Posts: 5

Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

Thanks for the quick reply - see answers below:


> Following the post of user “tonydesare2”
URL as reference please.
=> It's post #8 in the current thread.

> BabyFace Pro with firmware 101
Which driver version to be sure ?
=> v. 1.098 (latest)

> Windows 10 64 bits
What built number ?
=> latest: Windows 10 v.1607


Could it be a Cubase or Cubase settings related problem ?
https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=77885
=> No, I read it and it is not a Cubase config. issue. Also like I said I tried with 2 other USB interfaces with no problem, it also runs perfectly well with the Steinberg 'stock' lowlatency ASIO drive on the same machine. So the problem is really with the BabyFace Pro 

Can you post a screenshot how big the spikes are ?
=> Spikes happen sporadically 1 to 5 times per minute and reach at least 75% of the max. on the Cubase VST performance monitor Window even when the systemis idle.

What is the result of this spikes ?
Audio loss in projects ?
=> On an idle system with no VST plugins/instrument loaded: -> No impact on sound since spikes get to 75-80% of the maximum but don't reach 100%.
If I load a small project with about 10 tracks (including a few plugins and VST instruments) then spikes might go to 100%, so then it pops and cracks (just like if someone use a buffer size too low) btw: I did tests with buffer sizes of 96, 128, 256 and 512 samples and I always get the same spikes even at 512 samples.


Thanks!

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
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Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

-    Gigabyte Z170 motherboard

Which board exactly?

  • Registered: 2017-02-24
  • Posts: 5

Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

Which board exactly?
=> This is a Gigabyte GA-Z170X G6 rev.1.1. This board has been very stable (no overclock) running for almost 1 year running Cubase 8.5 and 9.0 with 3 different USB audio interfaces without any problems.  On this specific board the USB 2.0/1.1, 3.0/2.0 and 3.1 chipsets are driven by Gigabyte, Intel and Genesys Logic chips (2 different USB2 and USB3 chipsets + 1 USB3.1 chipset). I made sure that all chipset drivers have been properly updated to the latest versions (especially the Intel Z170 chipset updates) and I never had any issue with any USB2 or USB3 devices connected to any of those USB ports. The Babyface Pro has been tested on all USB ports (except for the 3.1 of course) and the problem occurs on all ports (no matter which USB chipset is in use).

Thanks!

15 Reply by Timur Born (edited by Timur Born 2017-02-25 11:07:13)

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

I suspected that maybe the Renesas USB 3.0 hub would cause issues, 3 out of 7 backpanel USB 3.0 ports (and the 4 internal ones) are run via this hub. But if you tried all ports already (also try the 3.1 and 2.0) then USB shouldn't be the problem. Did you use the same USB cable for all tests and did you try another one yet?

  • Registered: 2017-02-24
  • Posts: 5

Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

Thanks Timur,
I redid a complete set of tests using each USB ports and with 3 different USB cables (including the one included with the Babyface Pro). Allways the same results..... Grrrrr...
Note: If I raise the buffer size to 1024 samples I still get spikes but they usually reach around 50% of the maximum so the way I see it I still have 50% available for the real audio processing (Wow....), but then I don't get low latency anymore which is the reason why I bought the Babyface Pro in the first place. At 1024 samples it's not worth it using the Babyface, I get much better results using my old Scarlett 2i2 interface which can easily handle a buffer size of 256 samples on the same PC. I don't know what to do anymore....

Thanks for your help!

17 Reply by MC

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Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

One can never rule out that the BF Pro is defective, not acting as it should. To verify that you should test it with a different computer. But I fear that the culprit lies somewhre in your computer. The mentioned Scarlett 2i2 has absolute minimum requirements for USB, the BF Pro a bit higher ones (due to multiple times channels). But keep in mind that the same USB driver usually works perfectly even with a UFX, having double the amount of channels again than the BF Pro...according to your description this computer would fail with the UFX even more...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

18 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-03-02 07:22:18)

  • ramses
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Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

> According to your description this computer would fail with the UFX even more.

And if he would have an UFX+ then at least one USB3 port should be able to handle the load.
But then it should be easy to support a BBFP on an USB3 port...

So maybe then defective unit ?

1st you should check BBFP on another computer if you have one.
Then I would ask dealer to send you another unit for test.

If all of this fails: get a separat USB3 controller. According to UFX+ Fresco is a good USB3 chipset.
If its good/recommended for USB3 I would deduce that it also works perfectly for USB2.
My UFX (also USB2) also worked very well on an USB3 port for a long time.

If you want an excellent card offering 4 ports where each port has a dedicated Fresco USB3 controller
and if you have a PCIe socket with 4-lanes (x4) free, then take this card.
Its a little expensive, but extremely nice: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00XPU … &psc=1

Otherwiese take another card where multiple ports share an USB controller if you need to look for the price.

I took this as a chance to have 4 times full USB3 power to be able to connect multiple recording devices if required.

Unexpectedly I also had problems with UFX+ together with ADI-2 Pro on a server mainboard with C612 Chipset, where I also expected a little bit more than getting problems with 2 Recording interfaces and Bluetooth adapter connected ...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2017-02-24
  • Posts: 5

Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

Thanks to both of you!

I will follow your recommandations and first try on another computer. If it works on the 2nd PC then I will give it a try buying the USB3 card...

Thanks!

  • Registered: 2015-05-06
  • Posts: 55

Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

MC wrote:

Driver version? Tried different MMCSS settings in the BF Pro Settings dialog?

Hi MC

I have a similar problem i am going to try hunt down today , i have pops clicks and glitches very randomly and sometimes not for a long time , sometimes if i lassoo a bunch of midi notes in piano roll view and with my mouse move them around erratically when i release the mouse it makes this glitch y click through the speakers other times when i hits the start of midi notes these can be heard as very low spike noises but cant be seen on pro-l  , other times during playback i get huge spikes randomly that can bee seen on pro-l and i am glad i have pro-l there .
I want to just say this happens with 2048 buffers and so much room on my z800 that it should not be there .

Anyways i just need some advice as i hunt the culprit driver down .

1) can u please tell me what Babface original uses for MMCSS win 10 path . Is it Pro Audio  ?

Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile\Tasks

2) are the any other settings available for MMCSS in total mix fx for babyface ?

  • Registered: 2015-05-06
  • Posts: 55

Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

Sorry to hijack this thread

Would you mind  having a look at my latencyMon results  and see if there is something you can suggest is wrong ?

http://imgur.com/hXBZ24m

here is the drivers from latencyMon exported : https://files.fm/u/9aaceee4

here is the stats from latencyMon exported : https://files.fm/u/9aaceee4

Thanks

22 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

MMCSS is not controlled in TotalMix FX, but in the Settings dialog. And esasy to check, just restart ASIO after changing the setting.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2015-05-06
  • Posts: 55

Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

MC wrote:

MMCSS is not controlled in TotalMix FX, but in the Settings dialog. And esasy to check, just restart ASIO after changing the setting.


Are you talking about fireface setting > about > MMCSS ? If not please explain where there are addition settings?

If so i have checked that option and i need to know which MMCSS Profile RME uses in Win10 ?????
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/librar … s.85).aspx

Here are the REGEDIT Profiles :
Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile\Tasks

   Audio
    Capture
    Distribution
    Games
    Playback
    Pro Audio
    Window Manager

Once i know what MMCSS profile RME uses i can make my DAW/Platinum use the same profile and tweek the profile !!!!

Can u find out please MC

  • Registered: 2015-05-06
  • Posts: 55

Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

which Win 10 profile does RME use for  MMCSS ?

Is this  something you can find out ?

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
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Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

Steinberg's ASIO documentation/SDK lists the use of the "Pro Audio" profile as mandatory.

"Starting with Windows Vista, Microsoft introduced the Multimedia Class Scheduler Service
(MMCSS). On Windows Vista or any newer Windows version, ASIO driver threads  must be in the
“Pro Audio” class of MMCSS and their priority set to “CRITICAL”. This guarantees the highest
execution priority for the bufferSwitch().
It lies within the sole responsibility of the ASIO driver to set the priorities of the threads it owns.
An ASIO host shall by no means alter these priority."

I do not agree with the last sentence, but that's what Steinberg wants. Some DAWs like Reaper and Sonar handle this on their own and may even suffer from having the option set in RME's preferences. Other DAWs like Live cannot make use of MMCSS and either suffer from the having the option set or actively try to undo it internally (Live does that).

  • Registered: 2017-06-22
  • Posts: 2

Re: RME Digicheck 5.81 Real Time Peak spikes in Cubase VST Performance.

Hi all

I have a similar or the same problem.

Recent Post:

Dear community

I am dealing with a weird problem since I bought the RME UC 400 USB.

Technical data

RME UC 400 USB

- Firmware: v135
- Driver: v3.01

Host System

- Mac Book Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Early 2015)
- OS: macOS Sierra, Version 10.12.5
- CPU: 3.1 GHz Intel Core i7
- RAM: 16 GB 1867 MHz DDR3

DAW

- Cubase 8.5 (Build February 2017)

Example Using

- Battery 4, a few samples are loaded, no Channel FX used
- HalionOne, one Synth, Cubase integrated EQ
- Sylenth1, one Baseline, no Channel FX

So this is a very low ressource intensive "project". By the way, everything is licensed, no cracked VSTs used.

When I play the track there are some interruptions after a few seconds, like very short ones as like the audio processing is overloaded. I can see in cubase the vst load turns red but just for a half a second. After playing sometimes for 15s sometimes about 30s I get those strange noises going with the audio output signal and sometimes it goes unitl a freeze and I have to restart the soundcard. (Here's an example I found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g8t6PBF_aM it's not exactly my issue but it goes that way). After watching this video I routed the internal and cubase audio signal to diffrent software channels so they are not going to interrupt each other (comment in youtube).

Even when I'm playing local stored sound through itunes or rekordbox I can hear sometimes some interruptions but not a freeze. And even when I set the buffer sampling in Cubase to 2048 the problem still exists.

I had this problem since I bought the Soundcard. Meanwhile I erased the whole system and set it up again.

Unfortunately I haven't found a thread using google so I post my problem to the community.

Does somebody had the same issue? What can I do about it? I think I have a clean and strong setup so this must be a configuration issue (my fault? smile )

Greets
kloë

Yesterday I set up my MacBook Pro again with just Cubase, Komplete Collection, Firefox and Rekordbox to check if the probelm preexists. Until now I haven't installed the UC400 nor it's driver. I still have those crackles and spikes when using the internal soundcard but not that hard as like with the UC400 but only in cubase so far. I played around with the ASIO Guard settings and buffer size. With some settings it get's a bit better but doesn't solve it. I noticed that Cubase sometimes uses over 160% cpu, how's that possible?

I got a BabyFace Pro to test -> Same Problem
I tested a small focusrite scarlett sometihngidon't know -> Same Problem
A friend of mine tested my uc400 on his MAC with ableton -> Same Problem, but he moved back to his focusrite scarlett and the problem was gone.

So I really don't know if this is a general issue or RME or Cubase or USB or just because I bought a shitty apple product.


Greets kloë