Topic: misleading product description (bad for RME) for FF802 digital I/O

You seem to be selling the Fireface 802 short in this section:
http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/fireface_802.php#5

I saw the 16 channel at 192kHz number and said to myself, "that's wrong, I get 18."

While accurate if only counting the analog+ADAT ports, it reads a bit strange since the above AES paragraph doesn't name a channel count that includes the analog inputs.

It might be more clear to buyers if you leave the analog inputs out of the ADAT description.  The "Inputs and Outpus" table already lists the channel totals, with the ADAT column clearly showing why.

Re: misleading product description (bad for RME) for FF802 digital I/O

I see no error
Inputs @ 48 / 96 / 192 kHz
------------------------------------
Mic/Line/Instr front: 4 / 4 / 4
Analog Inputs rear: 8 / 8 / 8
2 x ADAT: 16 / 8 / 4
------------------------------------
TOTAL: 28 / 20 / 16
====================

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Nuendo 8.3, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: misleading product description (bad for RME) for FF802 digital I/O

Compare your table to here:

http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/fireface_802.php#3


The look again at what I said about about the inconsistent way the AES port is described vs the ADAT ports.

4 (edited by ramses 2017-07-15 06:33:03)

Re: misleading product description (bad for RME) for FF802 digital I/O

The total number of inputs and outputs is always on the upper right of product page and is in this case 30.

The further product description is divided into 2 main parts:
- Analog Ports
- Digital Ports
In these chapters the I/O capabilities of each type of port are detailed in regards to
- typical use cases and
- number of ports which you achieve depending on sample rate

Exmple:
1. for SPDIF it tells you that you will have 2 channels no matter which sample rate you choose
2. ADAT can be taken to i.e. expand the unit for AD/DA and makes the calculation, how many channels you get depending on the sample rate. So you get 16 by ADAT and 4 by the front inputs. And in this case it details how you need to count with higher sample rates as not everybody knows about ADAT multiplexing for higher samplerates.

You need to see the whole picture how this product page is structured, not only the chapter.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Nuendo 8.3, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

5

Re: misleading product description (bad for RME) for FF802 digital I/O

I don't get it, sorry. AFAICS the paragraph is titled ADAT, and the example

--------
Using two external converters like the ADI-8 QS, the 802 will provide 28 analog inputs and outputs, 20 with a sample rate of 96 kHz, and still 16 at 192 kHz.
--------

is talking specifically about the ADI-8 QS, and its combination with the 802. Adding AES to this setup makes no real sense as no one would use such a setup. First you need to have a 2 channel converter to add 2 channels analog via AES or SPDIF, second they would be out of sync (ADC latency) with the other 16 channels. And is a hassle to use compared to the two 8-channel blocks.

The example therefore is intentionally only talking about ADAT + analog I/Os.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

6 (edited by thabaer 2017-07-16 04:46:00)

Re: misleading product description (bad for RME) for FF802 digital I/O

Just trying to help clear up what looked goofy when I read it, I almost didn't make this post.

However, I think you just touched on a key misunderstanding:
"Adding AES to this setup makes no real sense as no one would use such a setup"

I have the very thing here to get a total of 30 192kHz channels using two ADAT and two AES cables feeding an 800 and an 802.  In my case it exactly maximizes channel use of my hardware.  Why would somebody ignore available input on an interface when it will work just fine ?

Which was sort of my original point.  The AES/EBU sentence doesn't mention the 12 analogs.  The ADAT section then turns around and counts the analog inputs while excluding AES and then describing the unit as a whole with "the 802 will provide".

It just struck me as an inconsistent to someone learning about the device to alternately leave out the analog inputs in one sentence, then count then in the next while making it sound like that's the maximum capability of the FF802.

If I didn't know better and were still shopping for an interface, I'd be trying to figure out why the count didn't seem to match the table in the Inputs/Outputs description.

Maybe I'm just sensitive to inconsistencies because I've been going through hell with all the glitches in TI's C5000 DSP ecosystem, as well as having to read through Lauterbach's TRACE32 documents because the website product description is vague in places.

7 (edited by ramses 2017-07-16 09:22:00)

Re: misleading product description (bad for RME) for FF802 digital I/O

I think RME did it in a gentle way, look, if you want to have the complete picture it would require something like this.
And I am not really sure whether somebody would feel something like this more comfortably.

Alone the fact, that the 2nd ADAT channel can be set to SPDIF operation makes up the requirement to
create 2 different calculations:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/264hwah3fkszu29/RME%20802%20Max%20Channels.jpg?dl=1

To sum up. I personally regard it as very useful that RME
- tells 1st the max. number of channels
- then RME outlines per type, how many analog channels, mics (there is of course a overlap in count, as a Mic Channel can also be used as a line/Instr channel, some folks might use them as one or the other ...), etc there are ...
- then in the text part of product page RME goes into detail per type separated in 2 chapters (analog and digital I/Os).

I think if you understood this .. then there is IMHO no reason anymore to discuss this further.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Nuendo 8.3, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: misleading product description (bad for RME) for FF802 digital I/O

Plus the manual is available for download. wink