Topic: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

Every once in a while playback in my system suddenly (not eventually) turns into some kind of shrieking, metallic-sounding, distorted playback that will usually not come back to normal until I shut down and restart my computer. All software behaves normally, no spike in CPU or HD performance - all well, except for the corrupted sound which seems to have no obvious cause.

This happens not only with sample playback, but also with rendered audio playback, so I guess it's not a sample/plugin issue, which is why I posted it here in case someone knows where I should start looking.

I use Cubase 7.5 and RME Babyface (not pro) USB (bus powered) on a Dell XPS One (i7).
I've had this with open internet/network connection and without.
Screen saver/energy mode shouldn't be the cause, since Cubase doesn't let the PC go into energy mode.
Attached HD has been changed recently, had the sound error before and after.

Does that sound to you like a hardware issue too?
Or rather like a resource conflict with the onboard soundcard (system sound is turned off btw)?

I'm thankful for any kind of advice or idea.

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

Error seems to stop when I change buffer size in the settings window, only to occur several minutes later again.

Further more, it either occurs very early during my sessions or not at all. Every 6 or 7th session suffers this error.

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

I just found out that this very problem has triggered a thread more than 5 years ago!

Please, RME, help!

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopi … 24#p123524

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

This guy here posted in a different forum describing the exact same problem. Watch this:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=144293

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

I just found another thread concerning this error.
https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=18045

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

And another thread concerning dropouts while using a software named "roon" which might actually be the same problem.
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/interm … fixed/8347

Looking at the screenshots I discovered that the guy has the same onboard sound ("Realtek") as me.

The user who posted on forum.cockos.com believed that the 2nd sound card driver somehow interfered. Maybe it's something between my onboard audio device and the Babyface?

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

Likely a problem of your USB connection. Did you check DPC latencies yet via "Latencymon"?

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

Thanks for the suggestion. I haven't, but I will.

Meanwhile I've found another one having sudden distortion problems, again someone with a RealTek sound card.
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/win … 064bde110f

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

And another one who has a RealTek chip. I know those chips are fairly common, but eventually I get the feeling it's something to do with it.

https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic … ;t=1303453

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

And another one who has a RealTek chip. In this case, also a Dell owner, like me (XPS One).

http://en.community.dell.com/support-fo … t/19974183

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

Not sure if that's the same problem (sounds slightly different), but this guy figured out what his problem was, so maybe it helps to know what was going on with his system.

https://www.sysnative.com/forums/window … rtion.html

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

@RME: as a loyal customer of your products I have to *bump* here.

Obviously there's something wrong with the driver/software. People on both Apple and Windows experience this error with the RME Babyface, and yet there's nothing RME is going to do about it. There are threads on this forum going back to 2012 with no solution. The internet is full of posts of sound distortion on RME Babyface. Am I the only one to be angry about that? I'm so close to abandon RME products.

13

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

Did you check DPC latencies yet via "Latencymon"?

There is nothing wrong with our drivers. You either have a hardware problem, USB cable, power supply, BF itself, or more likely a performance problem with your computer hardware and OS.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

Dear Matthias, thanks for getting back to me. You're right, Latencymon reports some issues, and I will certainly try to address them.

However, there are so many people on the web having the exact same problem with the Babyface, and apparently with no other audio interface, that I have a hard time believing everything's right with your drivers/software. I understand it's getting more and more difficult to develop stable software and drivers with all those different hardware components and OS updates and changes and all, and I wouldn't complain if I was the only one to have those problems. Clearly I'm not.

So let me put it differently: Maybe everything's right with your drivers/software, but perhaps you might include me and this large group of other customers and their common problem in its scope instead of leaving our threads unanswered.

Bottom line in my case: As long as I can't be sure what the problem is (and I still claim that my system isn't atypical), I don't feel safe switching to another one of your products. If say Totalmix causes the issue, then I'm bound to have the same problem with another RME audio interface. And to see you guys respond with "there's nothing wrong, it's your hardware" certainly doesn't inspire much confidence.

15 (edited by cyrano 2017-09-13 13:41:45)

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

FWIW: If you look up any other interface, you'll probably find people with the exact same syndrome: "all" other interfaces work, except the one at hand. Usually, the other interfaces are limited to one or two...

Not exactly a significant number.

And, yes, I feel the on-board RelaTek has something to do with it. Disabling the RealTek in the BIOS, installing newer or older drivers has fixed the problem with audio several times. But the solution depends on the hardware at hand.

Besides, as a trouble-shooting tool, DPC Latency Checker will probably tell you what's wrong. So follow that road first?

MB Pro - 2 X FireFace 400, FF800 & DigiFace USB
ADAT gear: Korg, Behri, Fostex, Alesis...

16

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

You are indeed the only one at this time with this problem. You linked 4 or 5 'same problems' above that have nothing to do with RME at all (all on-board Realtek users). Plus a totally outdated, and also unrelated thread of 2012 from this forum.

Please check your computer and bring some facts, then we might be able to help. This forum alone has lots of threads where people had the same problem and fixed it after searching and finding the culprit in their computer hardware/drivers. For example did you make sure your computer is in High Performance power mode? The first thing that crops up here when searching for USB problems.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

17 (edited by KoneDawg 2017-09-24 03:55:26)

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

Hi guys!

I bought a Babyface Pro a little earlier in the year and haven't had a single problem with it- it's been fantastic!

However, upon returning from a 5 week holiday this week, it's started intermittently making a loud crackling/distorted sound while anything is playing. The sound is like a combination of a bitcrusher and a saturator cranked up to 11. Interestingly, the distortion only appears while sound is playing- it stops immediately when playback is stopped. It appears in any application- Ableton, Chrome, VLC, etc.

Quioloy- I've been searching these forums and it sounds like it's a similar issue to what you're experiencing. I've tried closing TotalMix and the Fireface USB settings (which both run at startup) but the issue persists/returns. I've also ensured I've got the latest drivers and firmware installed. I'm on a Windows 7 PC.

I haven't found the specific cause of the issue yet, and it's strange that it should start at a time where I haven't made any hardware or software changes. However, it's worth noting that LatencyMon DOES give me the following message within a couple of minutes of running a latency test:

'your system appears to be having trouble handling real-time audio'

I haven't gotten to the bottom of the root cause yet (sometimes I might be playing for upwards of half an hour before the distortion returns) and I typically just unplug/re-plug the Babyface to alleviate the problem. I'm optimistic the issue is to do with my USB latency problems rather than an actual fault with the Babyface and/or it's drivers.

I'm very appreciative of any other suggestions on things I can check to help mitigate the problem. For what it's worth I've ensured my computer is running in high performance mode and have also ensured my USB devices in devmgmt.msc are set to 'never sleep'.

Thanks again for your thoughts!

All the best,

-Josh

edit: I also forgot to mention, I've disabled my on-board realtek sound card, but the issue unfortunately persists.

18 (edited by ramses 2017-09-24 10:13:38)

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

I suggest you open a new thread so that issues of different PCs do not mix.
Ff you want you can reference to this thread with a link.
Pls copy and paste my checklist to the new thread and please answer them there.

Then please detail your PC-Hardware and Setup and perform some basic troubleshooting:
1. CPU, Mainboard, SSD/HD, Graphic card
2. Do you have additional controller on the mainboard that are enabled ? WLAN, Bluetooth, sound ?
3. Are other devices connected via USB ? Which ?
4. To which USB is your Babyface connected. USB2 or 3, a port from chipset or an additional controller on board ?
5. Which RME driver is installed ? Please install or re-install the latest.
6. Does your Babyface receive power from USB bus or do you have a dedicated power supply for the Babyface ?
7. Did you try another USB cable ?
8. Disconnect all USB devices from your PC (except mouse keyboard) and try all USB2+3 ports for Babyface whether you find a port or ports where it runs without issues.
9. Do you have another computer where you can connect the Babyface to, to see whether it makes a difference ?

If this does not bring interesting results we need to continue with BIOS / PC settings and another round of LatencyMon checks.
A few questions upfront:
- which LatencyMon version are you using
- How did you perform the tests ? On an IDLE system or with programs running ?
- You need to perform these tests on a not loaded system with no applications loaded
- Simply freshly reboot, login as user and start the test as admin 5 minutes after login, when all startup programs are surely through
- For Windows 7 I suggest to take the older version 4.02 of the tool, because starting with Win8 they made changes to the tool with higher versions than 4.02 and I am not 100% sure, whether they run the same way, at least it would be easier to take v4.02 for surely compareable results and so that you can also measure kernel timer latency, which is interesting but not possible anymore starting with Win8... So its nice that you still have Win7.
Here you can download the file with MD5 checksum
https://www.dropbox.com/s/imcbu6lcac5vg … 2.exe?dl=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9h6uoqgcaqqvd … e.md5?dl=1
MD5 checksum: 99b520b262b8852fd24a9f4a94f0d84d *LatencyMon-4.02.exe

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

Just a thought: if you leave a Windows computer off for five weeks, the system will probably conclude some sort of service is needed. So the presumption that it is the same computer from five weeks ago, might be wrong?

MB Pro - 2 X FireFace 400, FF800 & DigiFace USB
ADAT gear: Korg, Behri, Fostex, Alesis...

20 (edited by ramses 2017-09-24 12:32:40)

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

I also thought about Windows updates .. the question is whether he configured Windows Updates to happen automatically or not and whether only security or all updates have been selected.

And sometimes user do not remember anymore exactly, whether they changed relevant things wink
Maybe also installation of software that installs additional software when you do not actively disable this.
Sometimes this is only visible when using the extended installation options, why I only use this...
Or simply the harmless addition of an USB device.

I hope the key issue is a more easy one. Unfortunately there are many things that can go wrong wink

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

21 (edited by widnerm 2017-09-24 19:48:10)

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

I have had the exact same issue that I think both KoneDawg and quioloy are describing.  It has happened to me exactly once.

I'm using a BabyFace pro, Win10 64, have Realtek main board audio (like most PCs), and use Reaper for DAW.

I don't have any thesis about the cause, but I'll share what I remember happening before the problem occurred.  I did two unusual things, so I figured the audio issue was related to one or both.

I had been running Reaper and the Superior Drummer 3 VSTi for a few hours, no problems.  I decided to take break from drumming for a bit to do a few things.  First, I wanted to copy a bunch of the Superior libraries over to an external USB drive to use on my laptop.  The USB drive was plugged into the same external USB hub as my BabyFace (and vdrums and MIDI control surface).  Copying the samples just wasn't going anywhere.  It was copying, but it was slower than a snail, so I could see there was something very wrong going on.  I cancelled the copy operation and moved the external hard drive from the USB hub to a direct USB port and then copying worked at normal speed.  I assumed I was just drawing too much power on the hub and the drive couldn't write.

Then I installed a new VSTi I wanted to try.  Turns out the VSTi was bugged.  It crashed upon loading in Reaper several times.  I uninstalled it, reinstalled, and same crashing every time.  (It installed a standalone version as well as the VSTi, so it wasn't just purely a "copy the VSTi to the Steinberg directory" thing).

Then I opened a web browser to go to the VSTi maker's web site do download the latest version.  While there I listened to some of the audio samples on the website and that's when I noticed the audio distortion. I pulled up TotalMix to see if it something was clipping there, but it was fine.  Way below clipping levels.  To test what was going on I opened YouTube, and same audio problem there.  Everything sounded heavily distorted constantly, almost like hard clipping sounds but not exactly.  It wasn't clicks and pops, it sounded sort of like something was clipping somewhere in the audio stream, but not quite the same sound as clipping.

I pulled up Media Monkey just to see if it was happening with mp3's as well, not just web audio.  Same thing, everything had the same constant distortion.  I went back into TotalMix again to see if maybe I had some sort of effect on, but everything looked fine there.

So I rebooted and then everything was fine.  And it's been fine ever since.

I tried to replicate the problem by reinstalling the broken VSTi.  The VSTi still crashes on launch, but I haven't been able to recreate the audio issue.  I don't really feel like trying the write test to the USB drive again because I'm not keen on power starving the external drive while I'm writing to it.

I don't have any latency issues on my system.  It's an i5 6700k system, so not a super powerhouse, and I run Superior 3 in Reaper for live drumming at 48 samples for hours on end with no problems.  Half the time I'm streaming torrents in the background and playing along with MP3's that I'm streaming through Media Monkey off a local server.  I'm just saying that I don't suffer any kind of kernel latency issues.  But this isn't a latency-driven clicking and popping sort of thing.

There were no other system lag issues going on at the time of the problem.  I pulled up the task manager just to quickly check if I had any kind of malware on my system (I thought maybe the buggy VSTi install had virused me) but CPU usage was 1%, memory 14%, drive and memory usage low, and no new or unusually processes visible.

If it ever happens again I'll do some more testing.  In particular I'm curious if the windows audio would have remained distorted if I switched the playback to a different device (e.g., motherboard audio ports or a different USB audio device [I always have Creative H7 headphones plugged in for online gaming voice comms]).  That would obviously point to something in the windows audio subsystem rather than the RME drivers.

To be clear, I don't think  it's an RME issue.  I have enough audio toys, software, and systems that I run into this kind of thing maybe once a year in some way.  If this were an RME issue that has been around for 5 years there would be numerous complaints, not half a dozen complaints over the past 5 years.

22

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

As a Windows user you should have had a look at the USB error counter in the Settings dialog. If the USB stuff goes out of sync (which seemed to have been triggered by your copy action) a simple reset by changing the buffer size or sample rate (in that dialog) will fix it.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

I can confirm that there seems to be some kind of USB issue in my system, at least LatencyMon says so, but I've read somewhere that LatencyMon finds issues almost on any system.
To be clear: I don't encounter ANY problems at all, though, except from the Babyface sound distortion. No performance issue, no hardware problems, no software problems.

And yes, Matthias, you're right: Changing buffer size or sample rate works, but only temporarily. It doesn't fix the problem, just buys me a few minutes before it happens again.

The interesting part is: The distortion issue doesn't happen as long as I stick to using my DAW software right after starting Windows WITHOUT using any other software (apart from drivers and utilities that auto-start in the background). However, if I connect to the internet, start the Chrome browser, do something there, and start Cubase after that, I'm likely to run into the distortion phenomenon. Rebooting my system, not connecting to the internet, not doing anything except for running DAW software almost always works - at least on my system. (Fortunately, otherwise I'd go nuts).

24 (edited by Timur Born 2017-09-25 07:59:54)

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

Try disabling your LAN (and WIFI if present) driver via Device-Manager and see if you can use any other software before using Cubase then. Also disconnect all other external device from USB, except for keyboard and mouse.

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

I will try that and post the outcome here. Thanks!

Meanwhile I've got a question: I've had the distortion effect a few minutes ago and I noticed when I opened TotalMix that moving the faders down didn't change the volume. Turning the hardware volume dial on the Babyface however did change the volume, but no software fader went along. Now I have to admit that I don't use Totalmix, I set it up once upon a time and haven't changed a thing about it ever since, so I can't tell if that's normal behaviour. Is it? Or could it be another symptom that might help us find the cause of the problem?

26 (edited by Timur Born 2017-09-26 17:13:35)

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

I know this kind of behavior only in combination with incompatible Genesys Logic USB controller/hub chipsets. Are all rows in Totalmix affected?

Re: Playback suddenly metallic-sounding, distorted, no obvious cause

My bad. Someone must have pushed the select hardware button on my Babyface without me knowing and therefore the volume wheel didn't move the faders. At least here everything works as designed.

Yesterday I worked a lot with browser open and internet connection and couldn't reproduce the distortion bug at all. I don't know... I'm just glad the majority of my sessions work flawlessly.