Topic: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?
I guess not but I just had to ask...
My 24x24 is based on two Multifaces and I fear that as soon as my PC dies (2005 PIV 3.2GHz, and yes, working flawlessly !!)
I will have to throw everything away...

2

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

Which will be true for the Multifaces as well - sooner or later they will die. Then it's time to update the audio interface as well. Nothing lives forever...

The HDSPe PCI card (the PCI Express version) is no longer in production but might be available used.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

Maybe this is not the right forum but what would be the most similar setup to having 2 Multifaces with current products?

2x ADI 8 + ?

4 (edited by ramses 2017-10-18 20:27:45)

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

Please make a list of your minimum requirements which Inputs and Outputs you require.

What is your budget for this ?
At which sample frequencies you intend to record ?
Do you intend to connect other devices via ADAT and which one ?

Ever thought about a MADI based solution ?
Then you could manage all I/Os within one TM FX instance.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Nuendo 8.3, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

5

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

I think the budget is quite clear. I would try to buy 2 used Multiface II with PCIe card.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

Well, I need:

16 analog ins + adat in for an Octamic
16 analog outs + adat out for monitoring

That´s what I get currently with my Multiface II + Multiface I setup.

I usually record al 24b/48k

I´ve been looking for PCIe cards for a long time but I haven´t found any...

I know i´ll have to spend about 3000€

7

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

Point is that all newer interfaces will require to get a new computer as well, unless you stay with PCIe.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

8 (edited by vinark 2017-10-19 11:01:46)

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

GuitarTown wrote:

Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?
I guess not but I just had to ask...
My 24x24 is based on two Multifaces and I fear that as soon as my PC dies (2005 PIV 3.2GHz, and yes, working flawlessly !!)
I will have to throw everything away...

As long as your HDSP PCI(e?) cards and mulifaces work it is easier and much cheaper to get a compatible PC. I use core 2 quads with Intel p45 chipsets (best ever PCI and PCIe slots combo, great usb2 and firewire). Getting a working motherboard cpu and ram will cost about 100€ max. They work with anything from XP XP64 win7 (64) and win 10.
I have 4 working computers, 2 with RME PCI cards on 2 locations. I have 2 or 3 spare motherboards, plus some ram and cpu's. Best are the Asus P5Q (E or pro or deluxe too).

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
HDSP9652+ADI-8AE  2X HDSP9632
Cubase pro10

9 (edited by ramses 2017-10-19 17:00:15)

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

What about this ?

UFX II
- 8 Analog IN/OUT
- ADAT1 IN existing Octamic
- ADAT2 IN NEW A/D converter i.e. ADI8 DS MK III
- ADAT1 OUT -> monitoring
- ADAT2 OUT -> monitoring

All nicely USB2 compatible and enough channels if you stay with 44.1/48 kHz.
UFX II €1936
UFX €1600 (alternatively, if still available .. hurry wink
ADI8 DS MKIII €1358

With older UFX you stay in budget.
With the new UFX II you are slightly over, but have then on top a better analog part and other nice features.

As both are plain USB2 based solutions there is IMHO no need for a change in terms of the PC if it is still powerful for his use cases.

Other big advantage .. Routing of all channels in one TM FX instance, this was before not possible with two single Multifaces.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Nuendo 8.3, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

10

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

As I wrote above - no way. The Pentium 4 does not have a single chipset that could do USB audio seriously. It stopped at ICH7 (if you're lucky). There is a reason the specs of our first generation USB interfaces mention Core 2 (ICH9 and up, what Vinark has) as requirement. And the UFX II even needs an i3 CPU or up, as those come with chipsets that support the changed USB audio transmission.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

Oh sorry I didnt notice this old HW. Time for an upgrade.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Nuendo 8.3, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

Hey, thanx a lot for all your thoughts and ideas !

As I´m trying to think ahead in case of a sudden death of my old PC, a new one with modern specs is out of question, so everything would be based on that new platform.

The asus P5 option or similar sounds very interesting .
I´m sure my P IV is lasting so long because it has no net contact whatsoever which keeps it safe...

After all, a super stable system like Iz Radar is an i7 running an optimized Windows 8.

Thanx again

Any new ideas are welcome !

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

Sorry, but to replace an extremely old hw by very old hw doesnt make any sense to me.

The best strategy is to get a normal system of the last 1-3y new, that fits your requirements.
Nothing fancy, pure mainstream. Then you get all the good things and HW standards of today
in combination with CPUs which also will give to you a performance advantage on top.

The only question is whether you want to go Win7 or Win10.
Win8 and 8.1 is crap with the perverted Smartphone GUI.

Win7 will give you more privacy protection and stability, as there you can still parametrize Windows updates to update only with important / security updates which is one of the most important basements to gather stability.
Win10 is a data grabber and instantly moving/changing target where updates can not be customized anymore and bring instability by introducing too much changes. An application as a service makes sense. But not Windows as a service. From the Operating System I expect ultra stability. And exactly this you can not reach by introducing too many changes, which are out of the control of the administrator.

But if you choose a HW (mainboard, etc) which supports Win7 and if you run on Win7... then look closely to get also a good Internet Security Suite like Norton or Kaspersky, because your PC needs additional protection by such commercial tools. Especially because Microsoft has no interest into Win7 anymore and only the biggest security issues become fixed.

I personally will stay longer on Win7 for more privacy and robustness, even if it wont be supported by Microsoft anymore, because a mature Win7 along with a Security Suite should give me enough security with the things which I do.100% you wont reach anyway also not with the newest stuff. So go figure what best to take (stuff thats proven and works).

When looking for a CPU, you can look at passmark.com which CPUs give the best bang for the buck.
You should also choose a CPU where many PCIe 3.0 lanes come directly from the CPU.
Then with a good mainboard and a good layout you have more flexibility and performance for any
potential extension with add-on cards, shall this be required.

All that you should look for is for mainbords that support i.e. M.2, USB3, USB3.1 gen2
at least 1 PCIe 3.0 x16 sockets for 1 GPU if you are casual gamer.

An option if eventually to build up a system Xeon based with Supermicro mainboard.
Does not need to be newest platform / CPU. Simply something E3-XXXX CPU based.

There are plenty of options what to take, you simply need to choose wisely and carefully.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Nuendo 8.3, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

14 (edited by vinark 2017-10-20 12:31:57)

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

ramses wrote:

Sorry, but to replace an extremely old hw by very old hw doesnt make any sense to me.

Why not? If you can keep a system you really like running for a few more years (or more) for under €100? That is less then a repair in a shop on anything. I would never have guessed that you could have a P4 system running 24x24, but hey now I know. Maybe it makes sense to the OP, it should not have to make sense to us.

Plus you get that vintage RME sound! (no I am kidding)
Cheers Ramses!

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
HDSP9652+ADI-8AE  2X HDSP9632
Cubase pro10

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

Everybody has different ideas/demands, I only described my personal opinion, the owner of the thread finally has to decide.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Nuendo 8.3, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

16 (edited by ramses 2017-10-20 15:52:24)

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

BTW, which CPU do you mean ? This here from the last Core 2 Penryn series ? Its from Q4 2008.
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp … mp;id=1030

The CPU passmark value is at about 2050, thats significantly less than on my laptop. Single thread 1172.

In comparison to that ...

This CPU i.e. would be able to work and perform with even CPU hungry VSTs.
And I personally think that a CPU which costs around €300 should always be feasible to get a good actual one.
In this range you get meanwhile something like this with a passmark of 15500 compared to 2050
with a TDP of only 20W more !! https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp … mp;id=3099

And I am pretty sure if you take now an inexpensive modern one, it would outperform the old one and enable you to take a mainboard with more modern components.

And an i5-8400 for €200 delivers passmark around 11.000
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp … mp;id=3097

And for €100 you even get thunderbolt3, though Gigabyte is not my preference.
https://geizhals.de/gigabyte-ga-z170x-u … mp;hloc=de

I would prefer more an asus board like this offering many options:
https://geizhals.de/asus-prime-z370-a-9 … mp;hloc=de €160

So for €200 for 6-core CPU and €160 as mainboard you get a much more modern system offering all options Sata6, M.2, USB3.1 (with latest ASMEDIA chipset), USB3, Thunderbolt header ...

This was not a deep review of whats the best for the buck, I simply want to demonstrate, that with a little bit more money you get much more of a performant system allowing to do many different things with it. And this is all I want to say .. if I spend money, then for HW of today giving you more options. USB 3.1 gen2 i.e. a cheap possibility to perform quick backups to USB 3.1 gen2 based external disks giving you definitively more performance compared to USB3 allowing to make also use of external SSDs for backup purposes.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Nuendo 8.3, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

17 (edited by vinark 2017-10-20 16:31:41)

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp … mp;id=1050 4000+ points
But this is not a good audio processing test. That is all floating  point. And the pentium4 is about 400....
But this is completely beside the point. This was simply a solution to the problem of having to replace the multifaces when they are still working.

Have a great weekend!

And I always build myself and have build better/newer systems for others. But I am still happy with my system as it is.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
HDSP9652+ADI-8AE  2X HDSP9632
Cubase pro10

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

I only referred to his posting that he intends to get smth like UFX II and is aware of getting a new system, see post #12.

But anyway, for me it doesnt matter, he can buy what he wants and your comments vinark are also very welcome from my side, interesting to read your ideas. Sorry that I am so stubborn rushing into the performance corner wink

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Nuendo 8.3, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

:-) Your expertise is valued immensely! When building a new system or needing an usb card etc I would certainly ask your advice.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
HDSP9652+ADI-8AE  2X HDSP9632
Cubase pro10

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11860/z3 … i-gigabyte

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Nuendo 8.3, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

21 (edited by knuckle47 2017-10-22 01:13:24)

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

You should both know that I bow to both of you on your expertise.  I read several hours each week trying to get this stuff down so that I can spend more time recording and less time setting everything up

Any post that has either of you responding to goes on my must read list and I thank you for the great education.  I only wish I knew what some of it means wink

Ramses, I read that blog more than the manual....

Babyface Pro, UFX+ via Thunderbolt, Win 10, Cubase 9.5 Pro, Asus Z270 i7700k Guitarist-1961

Re: Does a Multiface work with any current PCIe card?

lol thanks wink

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Nuendo 8.3, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB