1 (edited by HIFI 2018-04-15 15:17:44)

Topic: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

Will fit a power supply for ADI2 DAC. More clean power can improve the sound quality?
https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/

2

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

No, it can not.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

But users noted a significant improvement in sound when connecting the battery. On laboratory measurements, the signal noise also apparently improved.

4

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

But not with an ADI-2 DAC.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

Yes, but with ADI2 PRO.

6 (edited by ramses 2018-04-15 16:15:05)

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

Both units are very very similar, I think this won't make any significant difference.

UFX+,ADI-2 Pro/DAC,XTC,RayDAT,RL906D,
Win7/Cub95, Superm. X10SRi-F, E5-1650v3, Sonnet USB3-PRO-4PM-E

7 (edited by SpeakFriend 2018-04-15 16:44:58)

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

HIFI wrote:

On laboratory measurements, the signal noise also apparently improved.

smile If they are laboratory measurements, no "apparently" would be needed, either it did or didn't. Would you be able to provide a link to these measurements?

8 (edited by HIFI 2018-04-15 17:38:49)

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

I'm surprised that few people read reviews on the site branded of the PME ! smile smile smile

Yeah, sure.On the page http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/adi_2-pro_ae.php here is this link http://prosound.ixbt.com/interfaces/rme-adi2pro.shtml

We tried to measure the second option, not from a desktop PC and a full-time unit, but from a laptop and an external battery to avoid possible earth loops. The results practically did not change ... Yes, the noise result increased by 0.4 dB and improved.

Power supply pulse in the set.
Noise level-118.8
Dynamic Range -118.5
Harmonic distortion 0.0002
Harmonic distortion + noise -109.4
--------------------------------
Battery     
Noise level    -120.1
Dynamic Range -119.1
Harmonic distortion 0.0001
Harmonic distortion + noise -111.3


I personally connected ADI2 DAT to a separate high-quality power supply unit on the transformer. The sound is much analogue and softer. It's deeper and the scene is wider. Of course you can not believe it. But I personally recommend replacing the power supply unit going in the kit (impulse) to any quality one.(I used a different power supply, not IFI iPower)

9 (edited by SpeakFriend 2018-04-15 17:20:44)

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

I never noticed all those links at the left before... yikes

Anyway, thank you for the link, your quoted figures are apples and oranges (4 dBu ref level with PSU vs 24 dBu ref level with battery). Even so as the text quoted says the noise measurement was 0.4 dB better... I wonder whether that would hold over multiple runs.

10 (edited by HIFI 2018-04-15 17:38:10)

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

Yes on the left side a lot of interesting things! smile
Yes, it's understandable 4 dBu ref level with PSU vs 24 dBu ref level with battery.Try it yourself with normal settings, create dimensions. However, regardless of the measurements, the sound changes greatly when replacing with a high-quality power supply(I used a different power supply, not IFI iPower). Apparently, the earth loops are removed and all the same noise is improved. What generally affects the overall sound quality.

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

HIFI wrote:

However, regardless of the measurements, the sound changes greatly when replacing with a high-quality power supply(I used a different power supply, not IFI iPower). Apparently, the earth loops are removed and all the same noise is improved. What generally affects the overall sound quality.

May I ask how your methodology was to test this ? Did you perform double blind tests ?

UFX+,ADI-2 Pro/DAC,XTC,RayDAT,RL906D,
Win7/Cub95, Superm. X10SRi-F, E5-1650v3, Sonnet USB3-PRO-4PM-E

12 (edited by pianopictures 2018-04-16 06:57:53)

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

Actually in that Russian review mentioned they just say "battery power make sense, not for sound quality, but for mobile use".

Added: ah, nevermind, later they say that because of "adapter condition" and extreme signal to noise ratios in this case they were able to see some signal harmonics that was previously masked by the noise.

I know that MC always say power sources don't make the difference, also the guys who knows "electricity" professionally say this "better power" devices usually don't make any sense data-wise. The point is that you should know exactly what problem you are solving, and all the electric signals, good or "bad" will be converted in the device anyways. So if the external component make the impact on the sound quality that should mean that the actual device have a poorly designed electric components.

Again, very curious if there is a chance MC is missing something and some pristine quality power adapters can actually make sense. Unfortunately I'm not able to fully understand the case, so like many others I could be a good target for manipulation here.

Audiophile grade SATA cables come to mind...

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

soo i am a little  confused  now  ,  Mc says   above   that  there  is  no improve ment  on sound  quality  with  an   other   cleaner power solution  like  ifi i power .

in the  Tipps  and  trick section  of  this  forum    Mc    says :    Topic: 12 V Battery Power Solutions
No matter if for mobile usage, measurement applications or High-End listening experience, there is demand for battery operation of Fireface UC, Babyface Pro, ADI-2 Pro and other RME units that are or can be powered by an external 12 V power supply. Let me give two tips on how to achieve this with the biggest ease, comfort and best real-world results.



soo  now   whats    the  Real  Deal ?  will adi  2  dac  have   improvment   in Sound  when you  use  a battery   or   other  power  plug        or  not ????



Greetings  Gozi

14 (edited by ramses 2018-06-12 19:49:30)

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

Isn't the answer herein ?! https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopi … 35#p129335
If somebody should have ground loop issues... This refers also to "quality".

UFX+,ADI-2 Pro/DAC,XTC,RayDAT,RL906D,
Win7/Cub95, Superm. X10SRi-F, E5-1650v3, Sonnet USB3-PRO-4PM-E

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

@ramses     omg    sorry  ii  should  have  read  the  tipps  and  tricks   thread   till the  end   my  fault :-(     now  absolut  all is  solved

Grettings  Gozi

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

I tried ifi iPower, Teradak 12v and superteddyreg (Teddy Pardo's regulator) based PSU with my ADI-2 pro. Sonically the best among I tried was superteddyreg followed by an ifi DC iPurifier. iPurifier made an immediately recognizable improvement over just superteddyreg, and I think they are better than an iPower. I think ADI-2 benefits from a lower noise PSU than well regulated one.

17 (edited by ramses 2018-06-13 20:07:48)

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

gracky wrote:

I tried ifi iPower, Teradak 12v and superteddyreg (Teddy Pardo's regulator) based PSU with my ADI-2 pro. Sonically the best among I tried was superteddyreg followed by an ifi DC iPurifier. iPurifier made an immediately recognizable improvement over just superteddyreg, and I think they are better than an iPower. I think ADI-2 benefits from a lower noise PSU than well regulated one.

Sorry but may I ask regarding the test methodology ?

  • Could you directly A / B between the 2 different setups (with power supply / with battery) ? If not, how long did it take to change between A and B ?

  • Did you know during the tests whether its the setup with battery or not ?

  • Did both setups (one ADI-2 Pro with battery, the other with the RME power supply) connect to the same Amp using the same volume ?

  • Did you test alone or with somebody else ? Did the other person know whether its A or B ?

UFX+,ADI-2 Pro/DAC,XTC,RayDAT,RL906D,
Win7/Cub95, Superm. X10SRi-F, E5-1650v3, Sonnet USB3-PRO-4PM-E

18 (edited by gracky 2018-06-14 02:51:46)

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

My gear rolling was not test, I never did A/B or blind test (and I never tried batteries). Times with each gear were varying from some hours to some weeks.
But I'm quite certain about the impact of DC iPurifier upon superteddyreg (I repeated pulling it off and putting it in some times). Impressed with it, I added other ifi items (iSilencer and AC iPurifier) to my system but they were at best subtle although i'm keeping them.

19

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

> But I'm quite certain

...is not enough. The reason why external power supplies make zero difference in 'sound' is explained in detail in the manual, chapter 6, Power Supply.

Technically the only improvement you could get is through perfect galvanic isolation to prevent AC leakage currents, a typical side-effect of switching power supplies. A linear one will not show that phenomenom. BUT the effect (if it shows up at all, simple grounding already removes it completely) is nothing more than a low level hum at around -130 dB. Not audible, and not causing mysterious jitter effects or similar which could change the 'sound' as such.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

I think that the supplied AC adapter is not as bad as it is told. Immediately after starting to use it was an accented sound, but after a few days of energizing and the high heat generation of the AC adapter ceased, it became much better.
I also have iPower 12V / 1.8A, but I'm not sure if I can hear a clear difference in the blind test.
Perhaps, it may be due to my shitty ears. wink

In any case do not assume that it is bad from the beginning, and I encourage you to try using the attached one for a while.

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

Why did nobody make a blindtest?
You should hear adifference 10 of 10, otherwise it might, could, ......

22 (edited by ramses 2018-07-19 07:27:37)

Re: iFi Audio Accessory iPower 12V/1.8A

jjking wrote:

I think that the supplied AC adapter is not as bad as it is told. Immediately after starting to use it was an accented sound, but after a few days of energizing and the high heat generation of the AC adapter ceased, it became much better.

Sorry but what you tell is absolutely impossible.
You can not remember over days how the sound was exactly.

Even audio engineers for Mixing and Mastering recommend

1. not to sit for too long on the same project, but instead of that to switch after a while between projects, so that this effect, that the ear accomodates to a sound is being eliminated.
2. that an A/B comparison has to be immediate without too much delay between it.

The way your ears / brain work its absolutely impossible that you can recognize over days that the sound becomes better.

It appears to me that you are simply a victim of psychoacoustic effects: The more your hear the sound of your devices you become more and more accomodated to it. Additionally your brain has already a certain expectation that the sound becomes better, as you obviously heard already about it, that taking a better power supply shall make the sound better.

So the accomodation of your brain/ears to your devices sound plus the expectation, to get better sound with the "better" power supply results into these "well known" psychoacoustic effects.

Its the same about "HiFi Voodoo cables" for speakers and the newest trend is digital Voodoo cables, with maybe nicer looking Zeros and Ones in it wink

UFX+,ADI-2 Pro/DAC,XTC,RayDAT,RL906D,
Win7/Cub95, Superm. X10SRi-F, E5-1650v3, Sonnet USB3-PRO-4PM-E