Topic: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

Latest version of Nuendo 8 + Raydat.

This normally worked perfectly, but now when I switch between 44.1 and 48 in Nuendo it causes a crash. I see the Raydat change sample rate, but Nuendo crashes.

It there a problem with RME/Raydat and the lastest version of Neundo and the latest version of Windows 10 at the moment?

Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Robin

Nuendo 8, HDSPe RayDat, UAD 2, Windows 10, nVidia Quadro K4000

2

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

We will check that.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

MC wrote:

We will check that.

Thanks a million MC!

Nuendo 8, HDSPe RayDat, UAD 2, Windows 10, nVidia Quadro K4000

4

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

We tested with the current RayDAT driver 4.21 and Nuendo 8.1.10 Build 352 (64 Bit) under Windows 10. No crash when changing between 44.1 and 48 kHz by changing the sample rate in the project, or by loading projects with different sample rates.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

Thanks for this MC, I'll try to get it sorted out and report back.

Nuendo 8, HDSPe RayDat, UAD 2, Windows 10, nVidia Quadro K4000

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

Maybe test with a fresh Nuendo user profile ?! Rename it temporarily.

UFX+,ADI-2 Pro/DAC,XTC,RayDAT,RL906D,
Win7/Cub95, Superm. X10SRi-F, E5-1650v3, Sonnet USB3-PRO-4PM-E

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

Hi MC,

OK, I checked yesterday. I can't clock my Raydat externally. If I set CLOCK SOURCE to anything other than INTERNAL, it doesn't switch sample rates. What on earth could be causing the Raydat not to switch. I know it's not the Raydat itself, because it's always been perfect. So it must be something else in the latest Windows 10 grabbing it and not allowing it to change.

Very strange..

Thanks,
Robin

Nuendo 8, HDSPe RayDat, UAD 2, Windows 10, nVidia Quadro K4000

8

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

The RayDAT (any of our products) does not change sample rates just by attaching a different clock. That would cause total havoc in your computer, Nuendo and elsewhere. A sample rate change is always triggered by manually doing this in the Settigsdialog or by an ASIO command. The ASIO command will fail when the external clock is not identical to the one the card is supposed to change to.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

This is so weird, in 20 years of using RME I've never had this problem.

Any ideas of what I could do or where to look?

Sorry for the hassle Matthias!

Nuendo 8, HDSPe RayDat, UAD 2, Windows 10, nVidia Quadro K4000

10

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

What is the exact problem now - crashing or not syncing?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

Hi Matthias, thanks again!

When I switched sample rates in Nuendo everything switched as per normal. (Raydat set to Internal Clock Source)

Now Nuendo crashes. I can see the Raydat switching, but Nuendo crashes.

When I set the Raydat to sync to ADAT 1 and change sample rates on my converter (without Nuendo open) the Raydat settings show red indicating that the Raydat hasn't switched and there is a mismatch to the incoming clock.

It's as if something is not allowing the Raydat to switch to the external clock

Nuendo 8, HDSPe RayDat, UAD 2, Windows 10, nVidia Quadro K4000

12

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

That is the WDM part of the driver. If you don't need WDM devices you could change their number to zero.

But you are trying to work around the real problem, not even knowing if that workaround would work. The question is: why does Nuendo crash - when it didn't do this before and did not do when we tried? Can you start with an empty project to verify that it is not some configuration or Plug-In running wild?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

WDM devices, that's it! Thanks Matthias!

However, how do I use Windows Media Player? We use it all the time. Weird I did this all before...

Nuendo 8, HDSPe RayDat, UAD 2, Windows 10, nVidia Quadro K4000

14 (edited by TAFKAT 2018-05-03 22:10:31)

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

MC wrote:

That is the WDM part of the driver. If you don't need WDM devices you could change their number to zero.

But you are trying to work around the real problem, not even knowing if that workaround would work. The question is: why does Nuendo crash - when it didn't do this before and did not do when we tried? Can you start with an empty project to verify that it is not some configuration or Plug-In running wild?

Matthias,

What version of W10 are you testing on ?

IMO , we can no longer rely on a blanket designation of "Windows 10" , like in the past with Windows 7/8 . Each 6 monthly upgrade shifts enough dots between the revisions that its a constant moving target. I wouldn't be surprised that on W10 1803 they have managed to break something as basic as the WDM implementation of the HDSPe driver.

Vin Curgiliano
AAVIM Technology
DAWbench.com

15

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

Hi Vin, we tested on 1709. It is clear that Robin did not use 1803. BTW, 1803 worked for me for 2 days, then it completely disassembled itself after a 'normal' reboot so it became fully unusable. Spent 2 hours trying to repair it which - of course - didn't work. I went back to 1709 as I have work to do.

In those 2 days I saw no obvious changes in behaviour and known issues (FW still causes one core CPU load, WDM still mangles the listbox entry with the really active mode). I have some more checks to do (WASAPI 384 kHz support, WDM 384 kHz support for Audio Enhancements, UAC 2 driver changes), but I don't expect wonders.

Also we are in regular contact with Steinberg who regularly test their versions with our hardware (see the last crash fix for Cubase in the MADIface series driver), and they also are not aware of any crash situation when changing sample rate right now. There is a known issue with Sonarworks 4 that causes silence after changing the buffer size, which will be fixed from Sonarworks, but that seems unrelated here.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

16 (edited by Robin Walsh 2018-05-04 07:21:18)

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

I've done some tracing back... Posted this on Gearslutz


I can trace the change to the update from build 1607 to build 1709/1803.

The RME drivers worked perfectly, rock solid, on 1607 and they haven't been updated since September 2017 so nothings changed there. I had to re-install my machine (from 1607 to 1709) a month before the 1803 update. The WDM issue cropped up when I installed 1709..



So, MS have broken something here.

Thanks for all the help Matthias! It'll be a bit of a work-around enabling and disabling WDM, but at least we know what the problem is.
smile

Nuendo 8, HDSPe RayDat, UAD 2, Windows 10, nVidia Quadro K4000

17 (edited by TAFKAT 2018-05-07 22:55:07)

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

MC wrote:

Hi Vin, we tested on 1709. It is clear that Robin did not use 1803. BTW, 1803 worked for me for 2 days, then it completely disassembled itself after a 'normal' reboot so it became fully unusable. Spent 2 hours trying to repair it which - of course - didn't work. I went back to 1709 as I have work to do.

Hey Matthias,

Yep, as I mentioned in the previous post, its a moving target that is getting increasingly frustrating and exhausting.

I'll touch base and fill you in more offline

Vin Curgiliano
AAVIM Technology
DAWbench.com

18 (edited by Robin Walsh 2018-05-05 09:06:48)

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

Just letting you know that the same thing is happening with driver 4.22. But no problem switching sample rates in Nuendo when WDM = 0

Nuendo 8, HDSPe RayDat, UAD 2, Windows 10, nVidia Quadro K4000

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

Try to disable all Enhancements and play around with the Exclusive Mode settings in Windows own playback device settings.

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

Timur Born wrote:

Try to disable all Enhancements and play around with the Exclusive Mode settings in Windows own playback device settings.

Thanks Timur, I tried all of that, but no luck

Nuendo 8, HDSPe RayDat, UAD 2, Windows 10, nVidia Quadro K4000

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

Hello guys,

Everything is sorted!!

I did a complete fresh install of my machine - (W10/1803) and everything is working as it should. Besides limiting WDM devices to 1 I've left everything as default with NO problems.

So, the updates definitely corrupted something. Thankfully I found a guy on Gearslutz that is running the same setup with no problems.

Cheers,
Robin

Nuendo 8, HDSPe RayDat, UAD 2, Windows 10, nVidia Quadro K4000

Re: Switching Sample Rates In Nuendo Causes Crash

Thanks for your feedback, good to know that this may happen.

Curious whether it will happen also to my win10 test system. Up to now these upgrade installations served me well.

Would not like to install all of my applications to this test system, too much work.

Wondering why Microsoft doesn't come to the brilliant idea to deploy all application settings  to relative paths below your installation path so that you even should be able to mount your installed applications to any Windows 10, or if they would implement it clever, to every Windows system. Iimplemented something like this already under SunOS and later Solaris in the old days.

UFX+,ADI-2 Pro/DAC,XTC,RayDAT,RL906D,
Win7/Cub95, Superm. X10SRi-F, E5-1650v3, Sonnet USB3-PRO-4PM-E