Topic: Using Fireface UFX+ as All-In-One Solution

Hello,

I was wondering if the Fireface UFX+ was the best solution for my specific use case.

I'm mainly planning to use the interface it as a DAC + headphone amp combo, driving a Focal Utopia with which I'm listening to high quality, lossless music files and play competitive multiplayer games like CSGO as well as immersive singleplayer games for my own enjoyment.
I would like to employ the highest quality DAC that I can reasonably afford which is why I originally wanted to use the ADI 2 Pro for this task. But then I noticed a missing feature that would prevent me from realizing my second use case.
I need an audio interface and mic preamp to plug my Electro Voice RE20 dynamic microphone into for streaming, and recording audio commentary. Unfortunately, it seems like the ADI 2 Pro doesn't support microphones at all which would mean I would have to buy a separate mic preamp and audio interface for the microphone.
However, it seems that the UFC+ would support all my use cases within a single device (headphone DAC+amp and microphone preamp+DAC).

What I'm trying to determine is, considering that my main concern Is getting high quality audio to my headphones, whether I would be better of getting an ADI 2 Pro and a separate mic pre amp and audio interface or if the UFX+ is able to deliver an equal experience to the ADI 2 Pro in terms of its headphone amp+DAC and would be the better choice for me.

I hope this all made sense, I'm still new to the world of audio equipment and it's a bit overwhelming.


Best Regards

2 (edited by ramses 2018-07-22 10:22:12)

Re: Using Fireface UFX+ as All-In-One Solution

EDIT: heavily edited, please re-read (11:21)

The D/A conversion quality of the ADI-2 Pro and the features of the phones preamp are superior. If you want this quality and features, then you need to take the ADI-2 Pro FS.

Its not possible to construct a device like the UFX+ PLUS all the features of the ADI-2 Pro FS. Efforts/Price would explode and nobody would/could buy it. So it makes no sense to produce something like this. The way to go is to combine these devices in a proper way, and this is thanks to RME easily possible.

The good news: you can combine the ADI-2 Pro FS with any RME recording interface. You only need to look that you get the required I/Os (preamps, digital I/O, ..) and desired features (FX chip, Autoset, Durec, Standalone Profiles, etc ...)

In this blog article I showed how you can integrate the ADI-2 * into your setup and how to make best use of the very nice remap-key features for this purpose: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … tup-EN-DE/

I think perfect for you would be a combination of UCX and ADI-2 Pro FS (this is 1.3 in the calculation below) to stay close to "the budget" assuming the price of the UFX+ is your budget. Optional: later addition of ARC USB if you want.

If you think you need more headroom for recordings (more Mic channels, Durec, etc), then go for option 1.2 to combine ADI-2 Pro with the RME UFX II.

Should you want to perform recordings in different parts of your appartment / house / studio in the future, then the UFX+ would be the best choice, because in a ring of MADI capable devices each fiber cable can be up to 2km length, giving you much more options for the placement of up to 8 additional Preamps like Octamic XTC in other rooms or part of the building.

Only informational:
Differences UFX+ / UFX II: The UFX II is basically the same recording interface as the UFX+, simply without MADI/USB3. If you do not need MADI / this high amount of +64 additional channels IN/OUT, then this saves you around €500, then simply take the other flagship interface UFX II. Its the same like the UFX+, only without MADI and USB3.
The advantages of UFX II and UFX+ over old flagship interface UFX: you can read from my blog article: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … 68-RME-UFX

RME UC as alternative to the UCX ? It would also possible to take the RME UC instead of the UCX, but the UCX has a few very nice features, why I would recommend to take the UCX:

The Advantages UCX vs UC:

  • FX chip

  • Autoset

  • USB2 and FW400

  • More modern converters with lower ADDA conversion latency

  • Class Compliant mode to be able to connect an iPAD for recording or control of the device

  • 6 Standalone profiles that can be recalled directly on the device

And now something completely different

Shall you have also demand to make D/A conversion superior in front of your HiFi, then I would propose to you the following solution:

Take a combination of either:

  • ADI-2 Pro FS, UFX II, ADI-2 DAC or (to keep the price lower)

  • ADI-2 Pro FS, UCX, ADI-2 DAC.

I did it the same (only with taking an UFX+ as recording interface).
My setup is described in this blog article: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … her-EN-DE/

Overview of my setup in brief (full overview in the blog article):

1) UFX+ connected to my PC, ADI-2 Pro connected via AES to UFX+

The Advantages:

  • Main monitors (Gaithain RL 906D) get a better more detailed sound by the ADI-2 Pro

  • I get the best and most versatile phones preamp for my phones (Audeze LCD-3)

  • I can use my PC as high quality Music Player. MusicBee supports ASIO!

  • Can connect Octamic XTCs (currently 2, up to 8 possible) and remote control via MIDI over MADI

  • Full inclusion of the XTC's as AUX device in TotalMix FX, can store setups digitally in TotalMix Snapshots

2) Connection from PC/Recording corner to HiFi Corner

From UFX+ to HiFi Corner via 15m TOSLINK cable to ADI-2 DAC in front of my HiFi.
There the ADI-2 DAC is the center of ALL High Quality D/A conversions !
Very nice operateable with a remote control.

With an additional TOSLINK Switcher in front of the ADI-2 DAC you can enhance the device to support up to 4 optical SPDIF sources. These switcher also come with a remote control, so by this its all extremely comfortably in terms of operation.

The Advantages:

  • Best D/A conversion for all of my audio sources (TV, BluRay Player, Music from PC via UFX+)

  • Comfortably operation of ADI-2 DAC and TOSLINK switcher by remote control

  • You can use your HiFi as Monitor B when Mixing and Mastering Music

Since I am using the ADI-2 DAC in front of my HiFi I am amazed how good Film music is being produced
The ADI-2 DAC's D/A conversion quality is superior and allows for a very defined reproduction
of music material and room information. If there is depth, then you hear a room in your room wink
Since I have the ADI-2 DAC I very much enjoy music when watching TV.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

3 (edited by ramses 2018-07-22 09:07:11)

Re: Using Fireface UFX+ as All-In-One Solution

Here a calculation of the different solutions offered, so that you have a better overview.
Based on this you can better decide, whether you want to stay in budget or go a step higher or even go for a different solution which also brings high quality D/A converion to your Living Room / HiFi/TV corner:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9yq32956pbuw9yu/2018-07-22%20Calculation%20ADI-2%20Pro%20FS%2C%20recording%20iface%2C%20ADI-2%20DAC.jpg?dl=1

The Excel you find here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p2h3jv9npm3os … .xlsx?dl=1

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Using Fireface UFX+ as All-In-One Solution

First off, thank you ramses for going above and beyond with your recommendations and explanations.

Since I don't want to compromise on the audio quality for my headphones and my recording needs are pretty limited, I think the best solution for me, based on your advice, would be the combination listed under 1.3 so the ADI 2 Pro and the Fireface UCX which falls well within my budget.

I currently don't have a TV Hifi setup, but if I acquire one in the future I would definitely consider adding an ADI 2 DAC to take care of my consoles and TV.

There are two more things I would like to ask you about, the first being if there is a benefit to connecting the ADI 2 Pro to the UCX to my PC over connecting both devices seperately to my PC via USB (my theory is that the seperate connections would reduce latency on the ADI 2 Pro phones output). And secondly, is there a difference in quality when connecting both audio interfaces via an optical connection such as AES or S/PDIF when compared to a USB connection?

5 (edited by ramses 2018-07-22 14:45:02)

Re: Using Fireface UFX+ as All-In-One Solution

LucidTurtle wrote:

Since I don't want to compromise on the audio quality for my headphones and my recording needs are pretty limited, I think the best solution for me, based on your advice, would be the combination listed under 1.3 so the ADI 2 Pro and the Fireface UCX which falls well within my budget.

Yes I think so.

LucidTurtle wrote:

I currently don't have a TV Hifi setup, but if I acquire one in the future I would definitely consider adding an ADI 2 DAC to take care of my consoles and TV.

You will be amazed about sound quality of all your audio sources. And it will save you money, because then your BluRay Player or Streamer can be a fully digital one this save the extra costs of having a high quality D/A section on each of those devices. And .. you have dynamic loudness also there, which is a very unique feature of all ADI-2 * devices.

There is only one thing to be checked with the UCX. Whether you have enough digital outputs for connecting to HiFi in the future. I am not 100% sure from memory, whether in the ADI-2 Pro's AD/DA mode a digital signal coming in, would also be replicated to ADAT/SPDIF out. This should be checked 1st.

EDIT1: I checked it, its possible, but maybe not so flexible.
The ADI-2 Pro FS volume button then changes the volume for both, the "potentially" attached monitors on Analog 1/2 and the Output volume of ADI-2 Pro FS ADAT output.

If you think for such an expansion it would maybe be better to take the UFX II into consideration.
Then you can use i.e. AES to connect ADI-2 Pro FS to the UFX II like I do and sill have the possibility to connect the HiFi using either ADAT1 (ADI-2 Pro can make use of 2 channels of ADAT) or via AES.

LucidTurtle wrote:

There are two more things I would like to ask you about, the first being if there is a benefit to connecting the ADI 2 Pro to the UCX to my PC over connecting both devices seperately to my PC via USB (my theory is that the seperate connections would reduce latency on the ADI 2 Pro phones output).

The only difference is the additional digital data transfer between UCX -> optical SPDIF -> ADI-2 Pro.
And this you can fully neglectable, near zero.
I am using exactly this setup, forgot about latency in this case.

LucidTurtle wrote:

And secondly, is there a difference in quality when connecting both audio interfaces via an optical connection such as AES or S/PDIF when compared to a USB connection?

No its in all cases fully digital and the ADI-2 Pro FS fully refreshes any clock and uses its own more precise clock when performing D/A conversion.

EDIT2: to sum up

The investment into a combination of ADI-2 Pro FS and UFX II would be the more future proof investment.
Then you can more easily integrate and better control an additional ADI-2 DAC for the HiFi corner in the future,
as you have more dedicated digital ports.
UFX II offers many advanced features and a reworked analog section, also very interesting.
If you have some friends there, then you can all listen to music in highest quality.
2 excellent phone ports on the ADI-2 Pro and the two of the UFX II are also improved, not as good as ADI-2 Pro, but already very nice.
I think this higher flexibility is an investment protection towards future extensions and thus justifies the little higher costs.

Another good advantage is, that UFX II and ADI-2 Pro FS use the same new MADIface driver which allows for ASIO buffersizes down to 32 samples and you can access all devices via this one ASIO driver, which would make it also possible for you to connect both devices via USB. The only thing which you need to do is to clock sync the two devices (which is easy, you do this already when connecting the ADI-2 Pro via i.e. AES or SPDIF) and both devices need to have the same ASIO buffersize.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Using Fireface UFX+ as All-In-One Solution

I see what you are saying about the benefits of the UFX II in combination with a HiFi setup. It might be more sensible to spend a little more right now to make sure that I won't have to buy a whole new device in the future when I upgrade my TV setup. Definitely something I will take into consideration.

I'm also glad I don't have to worry about added latency when chaining the ADI 2 Pro FS and the Fireface together as well as being able to use the USB connection without loss of quality.

It really seems like my audio set up plan is coming together now and I will be able to place my order soon.

Thank you again ramses for being so helpful and answering all my questions in such a detailed but easy to understand manner. I will be sure to ask you for advice again if anymore questions arise about my equipment when it arrives.

Have a nice day!

7 (edited by ramses 2018-07-22 19:42:12)

Re: Using Fireface UFX+ as All-In-One Solution

You're welcome wink

"Don't be shy", ~€800 more for an UFX II based solution, but you will be amazed by the UFX II's additional capabilities.

And to give you a certain "relation" in terms of quality: Approx 2y ago the UFX was the flagship device and enhanced in quality, also compared to the UCX. Then 2y ago the new UFX+ / UFX II entered the scene and came with these improvements (mentioning only the relevant things for the UFX II, which doesn't have MADI/USB3/Thunderbolt support):

  • revised version of analog circuits and DSP

  • improved SNR and THD values

  • Direct USB Recording (DuRec): up to 76 channels can be recorded simultaneously

  • Internal Real Time Clock, allows timestamps in DuRec filenames

  • DuRec: increased reliability when using slower or multi-partitioned USB thumb devices

  • Microphone inputs with + 18dBU max, no PAD

  • Microphone inputs have 75 (!) DB gain range, which is 10dB more compared to UCX / UFX and 15dB more compared to the 802.

  • Headphone outputs with only 2 ohm impedance, with +19 dBU max output level

  • New Remote Control "ARC USB" (details below) for regular and stand-alone operation

  • ARC USB plugable either to the UFX+/UFX II or alternatively to the computer (TotalMix FX does then the required interfacing)

  • The two rotary encoders on the right of the display now individually adjust the volume of Phones 9/10 and 11/12.

  • Fully stand-alone. There are additional settings compared to the UFX.

My own experiences in regards to analog quality

1st I connected my Monitors via AES and used their own D/A converters. The ones in the old flagship interface UFX - which I had before - seemed to be on par with the D/A converters inside of the RL906D, so at that time it didn't matter much which way to go.

Then later I got the UFX+ and the new analog sections quality convinced me, so I connected now the monitors again using the recording interface via analog 1/2 out.

Now later when I got the ADI-2 Pro I connected 1st only the phones over it. But then later, when I had some time to experiment with the ADI-2 Pro, I found out that my Gaithein Monitors sound better, more detailed and give a better "3D" resolution of music material.

So the analog section of UFX+/UFX II is already great, but the ADI-2 Pro is simply reference grade in terms of D/A conversion quality.

At the end its not bad for you to have a few more analog INs and OUTs as a reserve with the UFX II.

The UFX II's Mic inputs are also very nice (can also be used as instrument inputs).
All settings and routings you can digitally store in TotalMix.
For quickly changing between snapshots and other features the ARC USB is very useful.
But this you can buy at any time later.
For toggling between phones and monitors you can very comfortably use the key in front of the ADI-2 Pro FS.
I gave you already the URL to my blog article, where the setup is described.

The UFX II supports also "class compliant" mode, so that you can use it i.e. together with an iPAD in terms of
- TotalMix FX for iPAD
- recording with an iPAD

All RME devices are based on FPGA (field programmable gate arrays), so everything, including USB communication is fully reprogrammable by firmware and by this fully in the hands and under control of RME, which is usually not the case, as most other vendors use 3rd party communication chips. If there is a bug, or if the surrounding conditions change (USB stack of Windows or Apple), then for other vendors there is not much thy can do.

The new TotalMix FX 1.50 even introduced new features like being remote controllable by TM remote.

RME sometimes introduces new features (like TotalMix FX) for all devices back to 2001.
By this now all RME devices back to 2001 can make use of the ARC USB.

So this gives in total a big value to the customer and you will see on the used market that used RME gear still has its price for exactly this reason.

BTW, don't be worried, when reading that only the UFX+ has USB3/TB. RME USB2 driver support up to 68 channels over USB2. So USB3/TB is really only required for the UFX+ because of its high channel count (188).

Why RME is different ?! Pls. read this interview: http://www.synthax.co.uk/latest/2016/05 … igner-rme/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13