Topic: Avoiding ASIO dropouts with Intel HD Graphics or hybrid graphics

It helps to use dual channel memory as the memory bandwidth is doubled compared to single channel memory. Intel HD Graphics 630 when rendering graphics can use up all the available memory bandwidth with single channel memory so there is not enough memory bandwidth leftover to process audio at low latency.

I was getting audio dropouts whenever the Intel GPU is being used - I have an NVIDIA Optimus Windows 10 laptop and I have it set to prefer to NVIDIA graphics but Desktop Window Manager always runs on the Intel GPU (as seen in Task Manager as there is a GPU usage graph for each GPU) with no ability to change it in NVIDIA Control Panel or Windows settings. Desktop Window Manager will use the Intel GPU when switching applications (alt+tab, win+tab), resizing windows, snapping windows side-by-side, navigating the start menu, etc. This issue affected every USB audio interface I used. I fixed it by upgrading from single channel DDR4-2400 memory to dual channel DDR4-2400 memory which doubled the memory bandwidth.

Just thought this would be useful for people to know.

2

Re: Avoiding ASIO dropouts with Intel HD Graphics or hybrid graphics

Interesting. Which particular notebook was that? And what was the lowest buffer size/latency that you could get before you changed the memory?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Avoiding ASIO dropouts with Intel HD Graphics or hybrid graphics

It is Lenovo ThinkPad E570p laptop, which is also known as Lenovo ThinkPad S5 2nd Gen (Type 20JA). I had to go to about 256 or 512 samples (256 samples still gave a glitch every once in a while) with Ableton Live before upgrading to dual channel memory. Now I can use 64 samples. Sample rate is 48000 Hz for all those buffer sizes.

One odd thing I observed on Windows 10 using ASIO Fireface USB driver:
48000 Hz, 64 samples, Input Latency: 1.81 ms, Output Latency: 2.17 ms, Overall Latency: 3.98 ms
48000 Hz, 48 samples, Input Latency: 1.48 ms, Output Latency: 2.83 ms, Overall Latency: 4.31 ms

Is it correct the overall latency is higher for 48 samples compared to 64 samples at 48000 Hz?

4

Re: Avoiding ASIO dropouts with Intel HD Graphics or hybrid graphics

I have to check that. Which interface?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Avoiding ASIO dropouts with Intel HD Graphics or hybrid graphics

RME Babyface Pro

6 (edited by strangedays 2018-02-28 15:10:28)

Re: Avoiding ASIO dropouts with Intel HD Graphics or hybrid graphics

Interesting - I have a Windows 10 laptop running Ableton Live 10.  Idont have Nvidia graphics though, however my latency isnt much of an issue.  I know version 10 of Live uses the graphics card more for rendering the GUI.

7

Re: Avoiding ASIO dropouts with Intel HD Graphics or hybrid graphics

I measure and see lower values at 48 samples - as expected.

48 kHz, 48 samples, 71 input samples, 88 output samples, 159 RTL reported, 159 RTL measured, 3.313 ms RTL

48 kHz, 64 samples, 87 input samples, 104 output samples, 191 RTL reported, 191 RTL measured, 3.982 ms RTL

Aaaah, I see - Ableton Live. That one is (unfortunately) known for adding a software buffer at lowest buffer sizes. You can't use that software to measure a soundcard's RTL, only Ableton+soundcard RTL.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

8 (edited by net147 2018-03-03 09:09:22)

Re: Avoiding ASIO dropouts with Intel HD Graphics or hybrid graphics

Yes, it seems it is an issue with Ableton Live 9 and Ableton Live 10 with 48 samples buffer size.
My driver version is 1.099, hardware revision 101.

The RME downloads page still shows 1.099.

If I measure RTL using Oblique Audio RTL Utility and loopback cable I get:
48000 Hz, 48 samples, 3.309 ms measured RTL
48000 Hz, 64 samples, 3.975 ms measured RTL

What software do you use for your measurements?

9

Re: Avoiding ASIO dropouts with Intel HD Graphics or hybrid graphics

Oblique.

Version 1.113 is available here:

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=26542

but won't bring any advantage for you.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Avoiding ASIO dropouts with Intel HD Graphics or hybrid graphics

Sorry for the newbie question but activating dual channel memory for the Intel UHD 630 is simply just buying a stick of identical ram and plopping it in, right? I'm assuming there is no need to tinker with any BIOS settings for dual channel memory to be accessible for the UHD630 (I've only got one stick of ram at the moment but changing a chipset bios setting for the IGPU seemed to have no effect on performance).

11

Re: Avoiding ASIO dropouts with Intel HD Graphics or hybrid graphics

Correct, just add another 16 GB or replace it with 2 x 8 GB.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

12 (edited by net147 2018-05-08 15:51:21)

Re: Avoiding ASIO dropouts with Intel HD Graphics or hybrid graphics

I find the following helps a lot:
1. Ensure you have dual-channel memory installed
2. Install latest Windows 10 April Update. The release fixes some memory management issues which can cause audio dropout, see https://www.facebook.com/notes/vb-audio … 165445117/
3. Click Windows icon at bottom left of screen, type "Power Options" and press enter
4. Click Change plan settings for the active plan
5. Click Change advanced power settings
6. Expand Intel(R) Graphics Settings > Intel(R) Graphics Plan. Change both "On battery" and "Plugged in" to "Maximum Battery Life". This reduces the integrated graphics performance but as data is being processed at a reduced rate it reduces the chance of audio dropouts. Click OK. I was getting significant audio dropouts when pressing Win+Tab repeatedly with 4 windows open when it was set to "Maximum Performance". If I set to "Balanced" it helps a lot but I get an audio dropout every one in a while. I get best results having it set to "Maximum Battery Life". It reduces the maximum processor graphics frequency.

For example with my Intel Core i7 7700HQ here is the maximum processor graphics frequency for each power plan:
Maximum Battery Life - 450 MHz (4.5x ratio limit)
Balanced - 800 MHz (8x ratio limit)
Maximum Performance - 1100 MHz (11x ratio limit)

Re: Avoiding ASIO dropouts with Intel HD Graphics or hybrid graphics

MC wrote:

Correct, just add another 16 GB or replace it with 2 x 8 GB.

Best using DRAM of same type and capacity.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

14 (edited by net147 2018-05-15 14:01:32)

Re: Avoiding ASIO dropouts with Intel HD Graphics or hybrid graphics

In my experience, installing a dedicated graphics card (make sure only the dedicated graphics card is listed in Device Manager > Display Adapters and not the Intel integrated graphics) gives better audio performance than switching from single channel to dual channel memory. Even cheap graphics cards work well. Better if you can do both.

For laptops however, dedicated graphics in a non-hybrid configuration is usually not available unless the display panel uses NVIDIA G-Sync or there is a hardware graphics mux to switch the internal display and external graphics ports between Intel and NVIDIA. For example, a lot of Clevo-based laptops have a hardware graphics mux and an option in the BIOS to disable hybrid graphics so that only the NVIDIA graphics card is visible in Device Manager.

Re: Avoiding ASIO dropouts with Intel HD Graphics or hybrid graphics

I think I'm going to give this a try. I did end up getting another 16GB of identical RAM and also tinkered with a million BIOS and power management settings which improved the crackling greatly, however, there is still the occasional crackle and pop even for small projects with less than 10-15 plugins on 5-6 tracks (Native Instruments VST plugs) which shouldn't be happening considering the fact that the computer specs are up to par for this.

I've read all over the internet that NVIDIA cards are worse than AMD as their drivers cause problems and introduce more latency. I'm going to go for a cheap AMD based one that can output 4k @ 60hz and report back once everything is set up. GPU prices are finally startin to fall so timing is great.

net147 wrote:

In my experience, installing a dedicated graphics card (make sure only the dedicated graphics card is listed in Device Manager > Display Adapters and not the Intel integrated graphics) gives better audio performance than switching from single channel to dual channel memory. Even cheap graphics cards work well. Better if you can do both.

For laptops however, dedicated graphics in a non-hybrid configuration is usually not available unless the display panel uses NVIDIA G-Sync or there is a hardware graphics mux to switch the internal display and external graphics ports between Intel and NVIDIA. For example, a lot of Clevo-based laptops have a hardware graphics mux and an option in the BIOS to disable hybrid graphics so that only the NVIDIA graphics card is visible in Device Manager.

Re: Avoiding ASIO dropouts with Intel HD Graphics or hybrid graphics

Did installing a dedicated graphics card help?

17 (edited by 208hipster 2019-11-14 00:50:24)

Re: Avoiding ASIO dropouts with Intel HD Graphics or hybrid graphics

I can confirm exactly the same behaviour with a single channel memory setup on a laptop (Acer Nitro 5 in my case) and Intel UHD 630.
Even if the DAW, browser and other heavy applications are set to run on nVidia, Windows 10 still actively use UHD630. Turned out, that UHD can use the entire single channel memory bandwidth, even if momentarily, and that created sound dropouts in ASIO. Optimising the Windows performance, reducing the speed of the UHD did not help, it would still clog the memory bandwidth.

Switching the DAW to a dedicated video card definitely helps, however, it didn't solve this particular problem for me, as UHD630 is never truly disabled on a laptop in a hybrid setup. It appears the problem is really related to the memory bus bandwidth consumption by the Intel video card.

One of the symptoms were related to the mouse movement and opening/closing of the Explorer window, which use the UHD630.

I fixed it by installing a second memory stick of the same size, the problem disappeared.

System: Acer Nitro 5 with nVidia 1050Ti, Windows 10, several ASIO sound cards, Ableton 10

It was hard to identify the real reason, as the LatencyMonitor was not really showing problems with processes. I had tried all sort of Windows audio optimisation, however nothing helped, but the second memory stick. Surprisingly, it's an issue, that is not widely known or spoken about.

Thanks to this forum, I got it fixed.

Re: Avoiding ASIO dropouts with Intel HD Graphics or hybrid graphics

Here is Intel's response to the issue:

Internal investigation has shown that displays receive the highest priority for memory bandwidth (to avoid flickering or blank out of the display) and that the higher the display resolution and refresh rates used, the more memory bandwidth that display will consume. Since displays get the highest memory access priority, others agents may be delayed. For some usages that are latency sensitive (such as audio), those delays may become noticeable.

It is possible it may be fixed in a future CPU since they are now aware of it.