1 (edited by mjfe87 2018-09-04 18:40:17)

Topic: How should MIDI Device ID be set on XTC?

When we connect two Micstasies and a single XTC in a MADI chain, what does the XTC's MIDI ID mean and how should it be set?  Is it completely separate from the delay compensation ID?  And is there an equivalent setting on the Micstasy?  We use a MIDI out to deliver red light data from the DAW over MADI.

I'm also unsure how the MIDI outputs on the preamps relate to the MIDI ports on the MADIface Pro?

Finally, when remote controlling the preamps with MIDI Remote do these settings (e.g. device ID) override any changes made on the units themselves?

Eastwood Records
www.eastwoodrecords.co.uk

Re: How should MIDI Device ID be set on XTC?

I am using several chained Octamic XTC, never used the Micstasy though. As a rule of thumb, simply assign the lowest possible MIDI ID and lowest possible delay compensation ID for the first device in the chain, then the next possible ID for the next device in the MADI chain and so on.

So e.g.:

1st MADI Device:  MIDI ID 0,  MADI Compensation ID 1
2nd MADI Device: MIDI ID 1,  MADI Compensation ID 2
3rd MADI Device: MIDI ID 2, MADI Compensation ID 3
...

What's the deal with those IDs?

When you remote control those devices e.g. with Totalmix, it is using the MIDI over MADI feature to send MIDI SysEx messages. However *ALL* devices will receive these MIDI SysEx messages. So even if Totalmix wants to change a setting at the 2nd device, the 1st and 3rd device will receive the same MIDI SysEx message as well. In order to control them separately, Totalmix adds a MIDI ID number to each one of those MIDI SysEx messages, and if a device sees that a MIDI message does not contain its own "MIDI ID" then it will simply ignore the MIDI message.

The MADI delay compensation ID on the other hand is used for the device to decide how much delay it needs to add before adding its audio signal into the MADI stream. That's because the MADI data is copied from one device in the chain to the next device in the chain. Transmitting the data to the next device takes some time, hence it adds latency. So if "Delay Compensation" is turned off on your devices, they would not be perfectly in sync, even though in practice these are just few samples.

For the MIDI ID you can actually pick any number you like, as long as you assign each device its own unique MIDI ID. But which number exactly and in which order does not matter at all.

For the delay compensation ID however this is different: the compensation must always start with ID 1 for the 1st device in the chain, ID 2 for the 2nd device, and so on.

Re: How should MIDI Device ID be set on XTC?

Thanks, that’s really helpful.

So RME, why might chaining Micstasies and XTCs not work as expected?

We’ve tried putting the XTC first and last...

Eastwood Records
www.eastwoodrecords.co.uk

Re: How should MIDI Device ID be set on XTC?

I guess you have to be more specific about what you are doing exactly and the misbehaviour you get in detail. If I understand you correctly you are unable to remote control the devices. What are you using to remote control them? Totalmix? Or are you rather sending MIDI SysEx messages from your (standard) DAW or even from your own custom software?

Are you able to remote control the devices if they are connected alone? For instance if you *only* have XTCs in the MADI chain or *only* Micstasys in the MADI chain, does it then work for you as expected?

What are the control LEDs saying on the devices? Is the MADI sync LED on? On the XTCs for instance the following 3 LEDs should be on:

1. green "MADI" (sync) LED (most bottom left LED)
2. orange "CTRL I" (MIDI) LED (most top right LED)
3. orange "CTRL O" (MIDI) LED

And how are the devices actually connected with your PC/Mac? Are you using Madiface USB? Something else?

5 (edited by ramses 2018-11-03 16:14:15)

Re: How should MIDI Device ID be set on XTC?

EDIT1: some additions, pls re-read

In regards to your questions:

> When we connect two Micstasies and a single XTC in a MADI chain, what does the XTC's MIDI ID mean
> and how should it be set?

Each device needs to get a unique MIDI ID configured, in your case on the same MADI bus (1..8).
This ID is required to tell your remote control application (either MIDI remote or AUX device) which device to control.

> Is it completely separate from the delay compensation ID?

Yes, delay compensation is a different topic as explained already in this thread.

> And is there an equivalent setting on the Micstasy?

Yes, see Micstasy handbook chapter 11.2 - 11.4: http://www.rme-audio.de/download/micstasy_e.pdf

> I'm also unsure how the MIDI outputs on the preamps relate to the MIDI ports on the MADIface Pro?

Similar to the UFX+, perhaps have a look to this handbook at chapter 25.8.2: http://www.rme-audio.de/download/fface_ufxplus_e.pdf
UFX+ Midi Port 1 = the 1st MIDI port on the UFX+
UFX+ Midi Port 2 = the 2nd MIDI port on the UFX+
UFX+ Midi Port 3 = MIDI over MADI optical
UFX+ Midi Port 4 = MIDI over MADI coaxial

For your MADIface Pro there will be fewer options, but the logic will be the same.

> Finally, when remote controlling the preamps with MIDI Remote do these settings (e.g. device ID)
> override any changes made on the units themselves?

No, its simply tells the application which device to remote control.
So 1st you need to assign the devices MIDI IDs which are uniq for each device.
Maybe you want to number top/down in the rack (1..8).
Then you configure the proper MIDI ID in either MIDI remote or in TM Settings for AUX device.

In your case I would propse that you use MIDI remote for all devices, because there seems to be
smth like a "race condition" currently for all devices when using MIDI remote and AUX device
at the same time and as you have more Micstasy's (2) than XTC's (1).

You can nicely store workspace settings for MIDI remote, that all three windows open at their fix location.

%---------------------------------------------------------------------

Some general information

MIDI remote and AUX device (TM FX) are two different RME remote control solutions.

AUX device is only available for the Octamic XTC and it controls the most important parameters of an audio channel (like 48V, PAD, Gain, Autoset, ...). One big advantage is the integration into TM FX, that device settings can be stored digitally into TM FX snapshots and thus can be recalled easily (also by a "workspace quick select" operation).

MIDI remote has the advantage, that it is available for all RME devices that are remote controllable by MIDI and that all device settings can be remote controlled. In the case of the XTC things like routing. Midi Remote has its own possibilities to store device setup and workspace.

For the Octamic XTC you need to decide whats more important for you
a) integration into TM FX, to be able to store most important channel settings into a snapshot or
b) to be able to control more/all parameters via MIDI remote

For all other devices you do not need to decide anything, as the XTC is the only device which supports AUX device.

For one device - the XTC - you can not use/enable the 2 different remote control solutions at the same time
AND for the same device, as they would influence each other.

Whats should be possible is, to use for the XTCs AUX device and for other devices MIDI remote, but there are currently side effects that these two solution influence each other on one MADI bus.
If you have a recording interface with different MADI busses it might help
a) to distribute the devices differently on the MADI bus so that only one remote control solution is active on the same bus or
b) to use only MIDI remote

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Nuendo 8.3, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB