• Registered: 2016-03-21
  • Posts: 20

Topic: O/P Level of Fireface 802 to Adam A7X?

Hi All,

New owner of Fireface 802, and ARC USB remote control (March 12, 2019).  Updated 802 firmware to latest, and installed latest version of Total Mix (mid-March 2019).    (WIN 10 (1803)).

Using ADAM A7Xs as my main monitor speakers.  Small bedroom studio (10 ft. X 15 ft.).  Standard off the shelf Mogami 2534 cable - balanced TRS out of back of 802, balanced XLR into ADAMs.  I sit about 4 ft. from each speaker.

Having trouble getting O/P levels I can comfortably work with.  I like to mix and monitor at @82dBs.

I read Matthais post in the Tips and Tricks section about level setting (twice in fact), and watched the video referenced at the end of the thread.

Use both Pro Tools 2018.7 and Studio One 4.1.3.

Used BlueSky test files ("1 khz sine wave -20 dBFS," and "500-25-Hz pink noise -20dBFS") and check levels with my sound level meter, to calibrate my setup.  Made sure all my DAWs internal meters were set to RMS, and that Total Mix's meters were set to RMS/RMS+3.

With my previous interface (APOLLO Twin USB) I would have the ADAMS set at 0dB - Unity Gain (12 o'clock on the volume dial).  I'd play my test files, with the UAD Console's MON LEVEL set to 20dBu, and adjust the APOLLO's output volume knob to about 10 o'clock which would give me @82dB listening levels.

Tried the same test with Total Mix.  All internal meters set to 0db (Software Playback AN1/2, and Control Room AN1/2).  Control Room's AN1/2 channel level set to +4dBu.  Play my test files, and adjust the volume knob on the ADAM speakers until I read @82dbs on my Sound Level Meter.  The knobs on the ADAMs are now at about 10 o'clock.  Great.

But...

When I play my mixes through either of my DAWs (or play SoundCloud files or YouTube videos), the result is too loud (for me) - I read @87-89 dBs on my sound level meter.

Not sure why.  I end up turning down the CONTROL ROOM AN1/2 output channel's gain or switch that channel's Level to -10dBV.  That gets me closer to where I thought I would be, but even with the channel level's change to -10dBV, I still end up bringing the O/P channel's gain down another -3 to -5dB).

As noted, I read Matthais post about using a line attenuator, and of course I know I can turn down the master volume on my monitors even more.  That's all well and good.

But I'm curious as to why when I set my levels using the calibration files, all seems well, and it appears I'm getting an @82db level at +4dBu and 0 gain on the AN1/2 output channel - but yet when I actually play back audio through the 802 - it plays back much louder than expected.

What am I doing wrong?

If there are any ADAM A7X owners out there, could you share where you are setting your speaker's master volume dial and output channel's level setting when using your RME interface?

BTW, same calibration, and playback results with both Pro Tools, and Studio One.

Thanks,
Danny V.

2 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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  • Registered: 2007-04-06
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Re: O/P Level of Fireface 802 to Adam A7X?

How do you play your mixes? Are these coming out of only 2 playback channels? Or multiple channels that all get summed into the Main Monitor output (default setting in TotalMix)?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2016-03-21
  • Posts: 20

Re: O/P Level of Fireface 802 to Adam A7X?

Good question.  Forced me to take a closer look at what I (thought I) was doing.  But I'm definitely getting only two playback channels from my Master O/P channels in both PT and S1.  To be sure, I muted every channel in Total Mix other than Software Playback AN1/2 and Control Room AN1/2.  They were indeed the only channels getting a signal from my DAWs.

But you did get me thinking about how I set my calibration.  My test files were panned hard left and right while I leveled each individual monitor at 82 dB.

So I redid the calibration with my test files centered/stereo, and as a result, brought the ADAM's master volume down to about 9 o'clock.  I can now playback at +4dbU and 0 gain on the AN1/2 Control Room output channel at my preferred listening volume.

YouTube is a crapshoot as the levels are all over the place.

But thanks for responding.  The unit is still new, and I'm still figuring out what it can do - I'll keep experimenting.

(I'm also wondering if the fact that the 802 is more "revealing" than my Apollo Twin is causing some of my discomfort.)

Danny V.

  • Registered: 2016-03-21
  • Posts: 20

Re: O/P Level of Fireface 802 to Adam A7X?

Hey All,

Still experimenting, and working at finding an optimal playback level between my Fireface 802 and ADAM A7X speakers.

The 802 is putting out a much "hotter" output level than my previous APOLLO Twin interface.

So before I try Matthias suggestion of using an in-line attenuator on my monitor outputs, here are a few different things I've tried.  They all work to bring down the eventual listening level to @82dB which works for me in my room (and with my ears).

Which of these would be the preferred way to lower the overall listening level, while minimizing degradation of (or causing the least damage to) the final output signal (all DAW meters set to RMS, and RME's meters set to RMS+3):

#1: Turn down the ADAM's master volume knob from 12 o'clock (0dB unity gain) to between 8 and 9 o'clock.  Leave my DAWs Master O/P, Total Mix's Software Playback AN1/2, and Control Room AN1/2 at 0dB, +4dBu on the 802 output level.

#2: Leave the ADAM's master volume at 12 o'clock (0dB unity gain).  Turn down my DAW's Master O/P level to -10dB.  All Total Mix levels at 0dB, +4dBu output level.

#3: Leave the ADAM's master volume at 12 0'clock (0dB unity gain).  Leave my DAW's Master O/P level at 0dB.  Turn down Total Mix's Software Playback AN1/2 level to -10dB.  Leave Control Room AN1/2 levels at 0dB, +4dBu output level.

#4: Leave the ADAM's master volume at 12 0'clock (0dB unity gain).  Leave my DAW's Master O/P level at 0dB.  Leave Total Mix's Software Playback AN1/2 level at 0dB. Turn down Total Mix's Control Room AN1/2 level to -10dB.  +4dBu output level.

#5: Leave the ADAM's master volume at 12 0'clock (0dB unity gain).  Leave my DAWs Master O/P, Total Mix's Software Playback AN1/2, and Control Room AN1/2 at 0dB, but change the 802's output level to -10dBV.

All of the above will lower the final output level to a more comfortable listening level for me.

I suppose "whichever way sounds better to you" is a valid response, but given all the concerns about "reducing the bit length of the audio signal" etc., I'd just like to hear an "audio engineering in the digital world" point of view.

Thanks,
Danny V.

5 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2019-03-22 17:02:20)

  • ramses
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  • Registered: 2012-10-14
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Re: O/P Level of Fireface 802 to Adam A7X?

danevaz wrote:

H

I suppose "whichever way sounds better to you" is a valid response, but given all the concerns about "reducing the bit length of the audio signal" etc., I'd just like to hear an "audio engineering in the digital world" point of view.

1. set speakers to lowest level
2. In TM FX set the output level to lowest output level (-10 consumer level)
3. Check whether you have "0db" settings in the "digital domain".

If the volume
- is still to loud then reduce the volume in TM FX control room  in the range up to -20dB
- is too silent, then
  - either increase the output level in TM FX by setting it to +4 (studio level)
  - or alternatively increase the volume on your Adam monitors

I personally did it the same way with my Geithain RL906.
On the monitors I set the poti to minimum level and it was still very loud.
The rest I did in TM FX, lowest level and -10 or -20dB setting so that the initial volume always is comfortably.

Meanwhile I use UFX# AES output, connected to ADI-2 Pro FS BE, there I use auto revlevel.
My Default setting on the ADI-2 Pro is -35 @+4dBu
Normal listening volume is -25 @+4dBu
Work levels -15 - -20 @+13 dBu

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2016-03-21
  • Posts: 20

Re: O/P Level of Fireface 802 to Adam A7X?

Thanks for the responses.

As of now I'm going with turning down the volume knob on the ADAM speakers (from 12 o'clock to @9 o'clock) .  Everything else in the chain stays at unity gain at +4dBu O/P levels.

Then use the rotary wheel on the ARC USB to adjust listening levels when necessary.

Thanks,
Danny V.