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Topic: Adi capture and monitor control

Hello all,

I want to use the ADi-Pro 2 FS for these cases:
2 Channel capture of analogue master bus chain
final Monitor output  > and monitor switching to second monitors
And Adding another headphone out to control room

Some questions:

Can I use the AES in to use my ADi-8 DS Mk3 (AES out) / ARC usb set up to control volume then switch so i can hear the input of the ADI-Pro 2 FS from the Analogue master bus straight to the speakers?

How is the volume controlled on the ADI-pro2 FS, is it analogue or a digital control so would be the same as Totalmix and an arc or is there a resolution improvement in the ADI-Pro2 FS resolution?

Does it need to be clocked with the rest of the system, or can it be standalone?.. for example if I only use digital in AES and then run it at the same sample rate as the session will it be ok or any clocking / jitter issues? obviously I can run it at a higher sample rate on a second computer to capture and monitor 96k.

With the headphone outputs on 1/2 mirroring monitor or analogue 1/2 can these each be independently muted? So monitors only and then headphones only.

Can I use headphone 3/4 for a second monitor out, I see it's unbalanced but anyway my second set inputs take unbalanced and the speakers are also (avantone)

sorry if already covered in other topics

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2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2019-06-07 12:14:52)

  • ramses
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Re: Adi capture and monitor control

> monitor switching to second monitors

Not possible, you would need an analog switch behind the analog output 1/2.

> Adding another headphone out to control room

ADI-2 Pro FS has no TM FX. So whatever you want to route in the TM FX control room needs to be done on the recording interface in front of the ADI-2 Pro FS.

If you want to route between Monitor 1/2, Phones 3/4 on the ADI-2 Pro via the TM FX control room / ARC USB on the recording interface in front of the ADI-2 Pro, then you need two things:
a) a recording interfaces that has two different digital outputs like AES and ADAT/SPDIF and
b) you need to place the ADI-2 Pro manually into AD/DA mode, because in this mode you can choose the source of the signal for both outputs on the ADI-2 Pro (1/2 for monitors and 3/4 for phones).

Best is to integrate the ADI-2 Pro behind an existing RME recording device with TM FX as I described here in a blog article, it also explains which recording interfaces are ideal for doing the switching between Monitors and Phones on the ADI-2 Pro FS from a connected ARC USB if you want that. The same switching functionality you can achieve also without the TM FX and/or ARC USB by using the remap key feature. All described herein:

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … our-Setup/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Adi capture and monitor control

it's not possible even on headphone out 3/4?

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4 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2019-06-07 12:19:58)

  • ramses
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Re: Adi capture and monitor control

iamyila wrote:

it's not possible even on headphone out 3/4?

3/4 is the phones output take it either for phones or for a 2nd pair of monitors.
The TS outputs on the rears are same signal as 1/2, this doesn't bring you further to switch 2 pair of monitors.

You can use a device like this behind Monitor out 1/2  of the ADI-2 Pro FS to switch between 2 speaker pairs:
https://www.thomann.de/de/mackie_big_knob_passive.htm                             € 66

There are also more expensive solutions from Mackie for up to 3 monitor pairs.

But the phones you connect then to the ADI-2 Pro FS not to the Mackie
(the bigger models also have a phones output of their own).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • ramses
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Re: Adi capture and monitor control

BTW .. the ADI8 itself has no totalmix so you cant control it with ARC USB or TotalMix.

You didnt tell about your whole setup / signal chain ...

All that you can do then is to connect the ADI-2 Pro FS via AES and then control the ADI-2 Pro FS via the remap key function as I described in the blog article.

In terms of clock. The ADI-2 Pro FS will refresh any clock signal and perform the D/A conversion with its own FS clock.

So the clock can come from AES.

Best is to have the clock master at the recording interface which is directly connected to the PC.
Then in most cases all clock slaves can learn the proper clock via digital inputs.
And then you control the sample rate at one central location in the DAW project settings.

In some cases this automatic learning might work not so good, as it is difficult for the circuits to differentiate single from double or quad speed (i.e. in the case of MADI).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Adi capture and monitor control

"3/4 is the phones output take it either for phones or for a 2nd pair of monitors"

So you can use 3/4 for a second set of monitors then switch between outputs 1/2 on the adi-pro 2 to outputs 3/4?.. So I can have main monitors on 1/2 XLR > Headphones on 1/2 (but can i mute monitors 1/2 and headphones 1/2 independently?) Can you listen to the headphones without the speakers being on?

I won't be using a monitor controller, that's what I want to avoid. ATM I use a Digiface USB > ADi8 DS MK3 > ARC USB and go directly to the speakers via AES, but as I'm changing speakers to analogue now i need this new option.

But AES doesn't send clock does it?... so the ADI pro will just get it's digital signal and then switch to the same sample rate automatically? What if I've got the ADI-Pro2 set to 96k to capture a summed and bus analogue out (first computer running at 48khz) will the ADI pro 2 always try and switch to 48khz on the AES input or can it be forced to stay at 96khz and ignore the digital in?

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7 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2019-06-07 12:48:04)

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Re: Adi capture and monitor control

> So you can use 3/4 for a second set of monitors then switch between outputs 1/2 on the adi-pro 2 to outputs 3/4?..
> So I can have main monitors on 1/2 XLR > Headphones on 1/2 (but can i mute monitors 1/2 and headphones 1/2 independently?)

This is not the intended use case I can not recommend that.

>Can you listen to the headphones without the speakers being on? No 1/2 XLR/TS is always on in parallel.

Of course AES carries a clock signal, its a digital signal.

As I said, the best solution for you would be the current setup with the ADI-2 Pro FS connected to the AES of ADI8.
Monitor Switcher connected to 1/2 of ADI-2 Pro
Phones connected to 3/4 of ADI-2 Pro

On the ADI-2 Pro you use remap key to toggle between 1/2 and 3/4 with a nice ~1 sec ramp-up for the volume.
If the output 1/2 is active for monitors the Mackie Big knob can switch between the two pairs of monitors.

Alternatively you can switch between ADI-2 Pro FS Monitor 1/2 and Phones 3/4 by using ARC USB as I said by routing audio either to the ADI8 or via ADAT directly to the ADI-2 pro.
Then you configure AD/DA mode on ADI-2 Pro FS and select ie
- AES (coming from ADI8) as source for Monitor Out 1/2 and
- ADAT (coming from Digiface USB) as source for Phones Out 3/4

Then you can control in TM FX / ARC USB whether audio shall go via
- ADI8 to monitors and with the Mackie knob you can choose between 2 different sets of monitors
- ADAT to the ADI-2 Pro FS towards phones

Both shall be possible.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

8 Reply by iamyila (edited by iamyila 2019-06-07 12:58:55)

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Re: Adi capture and monitor control

"This is not the intended use case I can not recommend that."

it's just unbalanced outs so why not? Question is can you switch the outputs of the ADi Pro 2 from 1/2 to 3/4, i see no reason not to run a monitor output on 3/4

Ok AES carries the clock, I wasn't sure, but my first question stands, will the ADI pro 2 always listen to the AES in and change the clock or will it be able to be forced to 96k and ignore the AES in? just so I can keep the AES plugged in but sometimes capture a 96k bounce on a separate computer via USB and monitor that outcome at 96 too.

I'm not going to use a monitor switcher, also I'm not really a gear snob but i've tested the old big knob and I can't say i was impressed with it.. wanna keep my signal clean straight to monitors.

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9 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2019-06-07 13:08:14)

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Re: Adi capture and monitor control

You can do what you want and try ...

But you loose i.e. basic capabilities like
- slow rampup of volume for your phones
- differend PEQ, dynamic loudness, reference level and other settings between phones and speakers
- the phones output is simply optimized for connecting phones (0.1 Ohm instead of typical 100 Ohm for line level)

If you choose clock source internal for the ADI-2 Pro , then of course you need to always configure the proper clock rate as it is then not being learned by AES.

The ADI-2 Pro FS has an SRC (sample rate converter) built in, maybe this suits you better when i.e. having to connect a DAT which has different sample rate than the project.

I am not recommending you a snobbed solution, but your recording interface actually has only digital and phones outputs.
The phones outputs of the DIGIface USB you could use also for phones, but I am not so sure about the quality and it will support only unbalanced, which wouldn't be my favourite solution of connecting monitors. But you could try.

EDIT:

Plan B, get an ADI-2 FS (the new AD/DA converter) and connect it to a free port of the DIGIface USB.
Then you have the same D/A conversion quality for your monitor B.

More I can't say, maybe RME has some more ideas what to do with 2 monitors and 1 phone in this setup of
- Digiface USB
- ADI8
- ADI-2 Pro FS
- optionally ARC USB
- eventually ADI-2 FS

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Adi capture and monitor control

ok but what about switching between xlr 1/2 and phones 1/2 is that possible? Also with slow ramp up?

My second monitors amp can accept different ohm and levels > maybe this won't be a problem, and yes of course I'd prefer xlr but I think I'd prefer to monitor through the same DAC, but perhaps as you say, using the digiface headphone outs could be a solution, but i was also after having more high res headphone outs in the control room.. at least two anyway.

no spare ADAT out's either, hence the AES route to the ADI-2 Pro FS... and also this optional capture of the Analogue master bus chain through a reference convertor.

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  • ramses
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Re: Adi capture and monitor control

> ok but what about switching between xlr 1/2 and phones 1/2 is that possible? Also with slow ramp up?

Not sure in this combination. You have only 2 DA converter in total on this unit not 3.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Adi capture and monitor control

but you must be able to turn the speakers off to listen to the headphones 1/2 and vice versa turn the headphones off while listening to the speakers? both on 1/2?

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  • ramses
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Re: Adi capture and monitor control

Normally there is an automatic detection.

If monitors are on and you plug phones in to 3/4, then this mutes monitors and ramps up phone volume not to destroy your ears, esp shall you have enabled the extended power for phones 3/4.

If you plug a 2nd phone on the front to 1/2, then you use and switch between Phones 3/4 and 1/2.

There are some automatisms, some things are configurable.

You need to get a test device for ie 30d money back and try it out if nobody other tried out this custom setting for you.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

14 Reply by MC

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Re: Adi capture and monitor control

You can switch between front and rear outputs by pushing the front knob for a second. You can configure it to switch between rear and front 1/2, rear and front 3/4, rear and front 1/2/3/4, but not in a circle from rear to 1/2 then 3/4 then rear etc.

If you switch between rear and front 1/2 for your monitors you can still use the mute function in the Volume screen (press encoder 1) for 3/4, which then allows to mute/unmute 3/4 separately.

So the setup from your very first post is possible.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • ramses
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Re: Adi capture and monitor control

Thanks MC, I was not sure.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Adi capture and monitor control

Thanks. Have ordered

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