1

Topic: Firmware Update side tracked

Moved posts here.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Thanks for this update. Can we expect any sonic improvements or is this mainly feature oriented?

3 (edited by N00b 2019-06-12 06:24:53)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Robertm394 wrote:

Thanks for this update. Can we expect any sonic improvements or is this mainly feature oriented?

« Sonic improvement » O_o
Have you red the reviews and measurements? RME has extracted every bit of SQ the DAC can propose wink
And even if they manage to gain a few dB of SNR or DR, I doubt that a human ear can ear the difference...
You are not happy with the sonic caracteristics of the device? (You would be the first!)

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

4 (edited by ramses 2019-06-12 07:24:23)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Robertm394 wrote:

Thanks for this update. Can we expect any sonic improvements or is this mainly feature oriented?

Are there any problems with the new monitors or have you still not done room optimization ?

It should be clear that the RME converter is at the top due to its sonic qualities and technical data (if you haven't noticed it yourself through comparison tests).

I wonder where you have the reasons for such a question. RME already squeezed out  whats possible from the AKM converters in terms of sound and quality. So I am fully with N00b in regards to this and also based on own comparisons with high end components from Accuphase.

If I remember correctly, then you have an unoptimized room and are just about to buy yourself some higher quality studio monitors.

If you're hoping for a little improvement somewhere, I see the greatest potential for improvement in your case 1. in the area of room acoustics and 2. to get monitors that really please you in terms of sound but also your listening habits.

In my opinion you should put your focus on that.  Questions like these actually only show that you still haven't learned to concentrate on the essential and really important when searching for "the" or "your" sound.

I am very sure that changes in the area of converters (and their differencies) won't bring you any further in sound if you are out for concrete improvements. Room treatment and optimizations will bring you more real advantages by a "felt" factor 100 supported by getting suitable monitors or a combination of amp and passive speakers.

It would be even more beneficial, to optimize the room 1st before performing rehearsals of different monitors in your room because then you wil hear how they finally will sound and you only need to concentrate on the point how to position them in the room (distance to the base wall, whether they need to be angled a little towards your position etc).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

N00b wrote:
Robertm394 wrote:

Thanks for this update. Can we expect any sonic improvements or is this mainly feature oriented?

« Sonic improvement » O_o
Have you red the reviews and measurements? RME has extracted every bit of SQ the DAC can propose wink
And even if they manage to gain a few dB of SNR or DR, I doubt that a human ear can ear the difference...
You are not happy with the sonic caracteristics of the device? (You would be the first!)

Chill out people. The DAC is great. Some DAC manufacturers release firmware updates that also improve sound performance, so I was wondering about that in this case. It's a simple yes/no question, not needing paragraphs of angst or reading more into my post than needed, as though I said the DAC didn't already have good sound.

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Robertm394 wrote:

Chill out people. The DAC is great. Some DAC manufacturers release firmware updates that also improve sound performance, so I was wondering about that in this case. It's a simple yes/no question, not needing paragraphs of angst or reading more into my post than needed, as though I said the DAC didn't already have good sound.

The responses you received might be influenced by your post history on this forum.

I, and possibly some other users, find some of your posts lacking in rigorous argumentation and technical knowledge. Case in point being you claiming audible differences for cables (analog and digital) and power supplies based on uncontrolled tests using only your experience/perception.

You also seem to be very skeptical of the ability of methods using objective assessments in order to determine what is and is not possible - not even to say true - such as scientific research or controlled testing while sometimes coming across as if you were convinced that methods using subjective assessments such as your perception without proper controls seem to suffice to determine what is and is not possible or real. In case of the latter, it seems to me that you are not following the epistemic paradigm prevalent on this forum.

While the former approach certainly has the epistemic shortcomings that verification of theories is not possible due the problem of induction remaining unsolved and falsification of theories is not possible either due to measurement errors/uncertainties making measuring quantities equivalent to a draw from a probability distribution, the latter approach equally suffers from the problem of induction but the prevalent measurement errors are of systematic nature, ie. bias, rather than stochastic which in order for falsification requires knowledge of the bias and how to account for it which as verification is not possible makes falsification equally impossible. Thus, it becomes a question of which approach yields better predictions given the evidence, ie. which approach produces the theories that are more likely to be true given the evidence. This might depend on the field of study but for audio electronics, the weight of the evidence is on the side of the methods using objective assessments.

7 (edited by Sebastian.Athea 2019-06-22 01:29:51)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Resetting factory settings almost gave me a heart attack!
So I was messing around in my studio and listening to Podquisition on far field monitors (as one does at the end of the week) after I stopped playing with settings on my ADI-2 I decided to reset it to factory settings just in case; Big mistake, normal listening levels on my system are around -40 -50 db but restoring factory settings sets the volume at -16! Why?? For the love of Godoka WHHYYYYY? Please fix this, make default volume -100 or something.

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25399

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

9 (edited by Trojka 2019-06-22 11:00:13)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

With -20dB Rothwell attenuators, I managed to bring down the normal listening level from -50/-40 to -30/-20 (for music). -16 is loud, but not deafening loud. In fact, the digital TV output is a bit low, so -16 is usually TV listening volume. Anyway, attenuators are a great solution bringing it down a little.

However, after doing factory resets my hand is always on the volume button when starting up (especially when using DAC's as pre). With any kind of DAC. You never know what is considered normal according to the factory, and how much it differs from your setup.

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

As you will certainly agree, a complete factory reset is a severe procedure and should not happen very often.
Turning all amps or active monitors off before performing such a procedure should be self-evident.

11 (edited by ramses 2019-06-22 11:25:39)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

You could additionally consider to connect the DAC digitally behind a RME recording interface (TOSLINK connection).

Then you can configure in TM FX a lower default output level into the direction of the DAC.
And in the preferences you can define, that the volume is always being set / restored from a saved snapshot on PC.
This gives you a little bit add-on safety.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gxc2ztmxky154ey/2019-06-22%2012_19_48-RME%20TotalMix%20FX_%20Fireface%20UFX%2B%20%281%29%20-%2044.1k.jpg?dl=1

You could also consider to turn the volume down on your Monitors, if they should have a volume knob.

Or connect the ADI-2 XYZ simply to a preamp in front of your HiFi so that the output of the ADI is not directly connected to the raw power of an power amp with nothing like a preamp in between to bring it to an acceptable volume level.

Otherwise I fully agree to what Bejero told.

What I personally never would do or recommend, to use smth like the ADI-2 Pro / DAC in front of 2 1000W Mono Power amps .... 0db could become interesting .. blow you ears and your mind ... Put a preamp in between ... or use integrated amplifier which has a preamp already built-in.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

12 (edited by bejoro 2019-06-22 12:23:15)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

What I personally never would do or recommend, to use smth like the ADI-2 Pro / DAC in front of 2 1000W Mono Power amps .... 0db could become interesting .. blow you ears and your mind ... Put a preamp in between ... or use integrated amplifier which has a preamp already built-in.

Sorry ramss, that's nonsense. That's the exact usecase I am using and some of my customers. An additional pre-amp is not necessary and introduces only additional sound degradation. Just set the correct output level at your PRO/DAC. And even with a pre-amp you have to be careful with your volume control. And the max. power of the amps has nothing to do with it.

13 (edited by ramses 2019-06-22 12:40:57)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

bejoro wrote:

What I personally never would do or recommend, to use smth like the ADI-2 Pro / DAC in front of 2 1000W Mono Power amps .... 0db could become interesting .. blow you ears and your mind ... Put a preamp in between ... or use integrated amplifier which has a preamp already built-in.

Sorry ramss, that's nonsense. That's the exact usecase I am using and some of my customers. An additional pre-amp is not necessary and introduces only additional sound degradation. Just set the correct output level at your PRO/DAC. And even with a pre-amp you have to be careful with your volume control. And the max. power of the amps has nothing to do with it.

Excuse me Bernd, nonsense ? Come on. He had an issue and this would be a valid solution for that.

Only because you prefer a certain setup doesnt mean that everybody has to do it like this at the risk, that you can potentially damage your ears depening on circumstances and on how powerful the amp / speaker combination actually is.

Good luck with your ears Bend and that you never forget to look at the levels. I personally wouldn't like to take this risk for a potentially extremely low quality difference.

A friend of mine just had an acoustic accident because his guitar amp / monitor switcher ticket out (internal electronics) and blastered his ears with a mix of different frequencies very loud. For him high frequencie loss of left ear and also his little son was impacted and frightened since then to enter the room.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

14 (edited by Pitrs 2019-06-22 12:40:50)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

ramses wrote:

What I personally never would do or recommend, to use smth like the ADI-2 Pro / DAC in front of 2 1000W Mono Power amps .... 0db could become interesting .. blow you ears and your mind ... Put a preamp in between ... or use integrated amplifier which has a preamp already built-in.

Complete nonsense. ADI-2 xxx IS preamp. Adding another one is fully meaningless. It only adds fully useless additional distortion to the signal. It is not about personal tastes, it is just a simple and logical fact.

15 (edited by ramses 2019-06-22 12:43:52)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Look back what the guy wrote. It happened to him. And what can happen once can happen twice in a bad case of luck.
Don't be so petty all of a sudden.
You can do whatever YOU want. If you do not like my good meant recommendation to him, people, then simply ignore.
No need to start debates over this or to accuse somebody to tell nonsense.
Good Preamps btw are still being sold in 2019 ... if you wan to save the money, simply do .. its fine be me.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

16 (edited by Pitrs 2019-06-22 12:54:34)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

ramses wrote:

Excuse me Bernd, nonsense ? Come on. He had an issue and this would be a valid solution for that.

Only because you prefer a certain setup doesnt mean that everybody has to do it like this at the risk, that you can potentially damage your ears depening on circumstances and on how powerful the amp / speaker combination actually is.

Good luck with your ears Bend and that you never forget to look at the levels. I personally wouldn't like to take this risk for a potentially extremely low quality difference.

Yes, he had an issue - due to the wrong procedure while hard-reseting ADI. In such cases all other components must be off. After the reset all the setting on ADI should be checked.

Additionally, how often the hard reset is really needed? Once per very long time, if ever... And to buy and put additional component to the system just for very ocasional and only potential risk which might become real danger only if the reset is done wrongly.... It realy is complete useless and logically nonsense.

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

ramses wrote:

Look back what the guy wrote. It happened to him. And what can happen once can happen twice in a bad case of luck.
Don't be so petty all of a sudden.
You can do whatever YOU want. If you do not like my good meant recommendation to him, people, then simply ignore.
No need to start debates over this or to accuse somebody to tell nonsense.
Good Preamps btw are still being sold in 2019 ... if you wan to save the money, simply do .. its fine be me.

If I am not wrong, this space is a discussion forum. So in case someone writes something what is a nonsense from SQ and logical and factual point of view, the solution is not ignorance or not debating it as you suggest. The solution is to write that it is a nonsense and also to post reasons why it it a nonsense. I did both.

If you do not agree, use arguments, not the aim to silent others.

18 (edited by bejoro 2019-06-22 13:11:12)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

This discussion makes no sense and is completely off topic. Ramses is always right. That's the best way how to deal with it.

Open a separate thread regarding this topic (pre or not pre) if considered necessary. Let's keep this to firmware discussions.

19 (edited by Sebastian.Athea 2019-06-22 13:20:04)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Suggesting a hardware solution (especially multi thousand $ preamp) to a simple software parameter "error" is beyond stupidity. I have 3 systems: near field monitors, far field monitors (maybe I shouldn't call them monitors, they are a pair of                                     big hifi speakers and power amps) and headphone system with external head amp, all of them require different levels and I didn't ever had a problem with clicking or popping noise.
The solution to this issue is really simple, instead of putting volume attenuators or connecting preamps to preamps, just set default volume to minimum in firmware, problem solved, the end.

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

The device is sold as a DAC/pre, so one should be able to use it as a pre safely. In my setup it works much better as a pre. Although I do think paying attention is important after doing a factory reset, I don't think it's a strange request to lower the default to -50. Just to be safe for all types of usage.

21 (edited by ramses 2019-06-22 16:56:07)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

bejoro wrote:

This discussion makes no sense and is completely off topic. Ramses is always right. That's the best way how to deal with it.

I made a proposal based on an issue that a user had, that was all.
You started to rate my proposal as nonsense.

So I question myself whats worse, to suggest a solution (not all solutions cost $0) or to claim
I am telling nonsense for really no reason.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Trojka wrote:

The device is sold as a DAC/pre, so one should be able to use it as a pre safely. In my setup it works much better as a pre. Although I do think paying attention is important after doing a factory reset, I don't think it's a strange request to lower the default to -50. Just to be safe for all types of usage.

If somebody should have high power amps (1000W Mono blocks), then -50dB won't be enough I fear.
-50dB on my Accu E-600 (30W Class A) and the ADI-2 DAC set to -13 dB is already loud enough for normal listening.

Then make a nail on it and set it to the absolute minimum value for safety reasons.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

I don't have experience with loud amps, but I wouldn't mind silencing it as much as possible.

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

To keep the discussion in at least minimal technicaly reasonable level, there is no paramater of power amps as "loudness". Amp itself is not and can not be loud. It just amplifies the signal (with some distorsion) with some gain. And the outcoming "loudnes" highly depends on speaker's sensitivity. 30 W power amp can be much "louder" then 1000 W amp. Putting any general equasion between amp's power output and "loudness" of the sound is another nonsense.

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

bejoro wrote:

This discussion makes no sense and is completely off topic. Ramses is always right.

It is very obvious that people who yield to self conviction of being always righ are often very wrong. This topic shows it clearly.

26 (edited by ramses 2019-06-23 10:06:57)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Especially when people put something in your mouth that you didn't mean. A discussion about Loudness etc. goes far beyond what I said and meant. I just wanted to make it clear that everyone uses other devices and that setting an output level of around -50 dB (in case of a reset of a device) works for one device but not for another. The rest is just another discussion that is completely unnecessary and out of place.

If you have a problem, then please clarify it by e-mail in an appropriate manner.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Thread hijacking
Let's discuss firmware updates please
Love the sound and features of this dac
Rgds
Ronny

Roon > RME ADI-2 DAC FS > Nord Three 1ET400A ST > Focal Aria 936

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Sorry from me :-).

I just wanted to explain why ramsesˈ expression "loud amplifier" is a nonsense.

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

ramses wrote:
Trojka wrote:

The device is sold as a DAC/pre, so one should be able to use it as a pre safely. In my setup it works much better as a pre. Although I do think paying attention is important after doing a factory reset, I don't think it's a strange request to lower the default to -50. Just to be safe for all types of usage.

If somebody should have high power amps (1000W Mono blocks), then -50dB won't be enough I fear.
-50dB on my Accu E-600 (30W Class A) and the ADI-2 DAC set to -13 dB is already loud enough for normal listening.

Then make a nail on it and set it to the absolute minimum value for safety reasons.

Amplifier output power does not have anything to do with gain. You can have 30w tube amp that has more gain than 1kw solid state. My previous amps had 1000wpc and I had to run them at about -20 -15 db, my new amps have "only" 200w yet they get loud at -40 db

30 (edited by ramses 2019-06-22 21:36:03)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

My Class A Amp is quite loud and there will be even louder power amps. Whatever more loud it will be .. if somebody suggests for a safety belt for this product when performing a factory reset, then I think it would be a better strategy to silence it as much as possible, because -50dB for the one preamp/amp combination could be feasible and for another one again not.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

31 (edited by Robertm394 2019-06-24 18:02:47)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

jiw wrote:
Robertm394 wrote:

Chill out people. The DAC is great. Some DAC manufacturers release firmware updates that also improve sound performance, so I was wondering about that in this case. It's a simple yes/no question, not needing paragraphs of angst or reading more into my post than needed, as though I said the DAC didn't already have good sound.

The responses you received might be influenced by your post history on this forum.

I, and possibly some other users, find some of your posts lacking in rigorous argumentation and technical knowledge. Case in point being you claiming audible differences for cables (analog and digital) and power supplies based on uncontrolled tests using only your experience/perception.

You also seem to be very skeptical of the ability of methods using objective assessments in order to determine what is and is not possible - not even to say true - such as scientific research or controlled testing while sometimes coming across as if you were convinced that methods using subjective assessments such as your perception without proper controls seem to suffice to determine what is and is not possible or real. In case of the latter, it seems to me that you are not following the epistemic paradigm prevalent on this forum.

While the former approach certainly has the epistemic shortcomings that verification of theories is not possible due the problem of induction remaining unsolved and falsification of theories is not possible either due to measurement errors/uncertainties making measuring quantities equivalent to a draw from a probability distribution, the latter approach equally suffers from the problem of induction but the prevalent measurement errors are of systematic nature, ie. bias, rather than stochastic which in order for falsification requires knowledge of the bias and how to account for it which as verification is not possible makes falsification equally impossible. Thus, it becomes a question of which approach yields better predictions given the evidence, ie. which approach produces the theories that are more likely to be true given the evidence. This might depend on the field of study but for audio electronics, the weight of the evidence is on the side of the methods using objective assessments.

Posts like this are why I don't visit this forum much anymore.

Here I am asking a very straightforward question about firmware updates, and you write a 3 paragraph diatribe critiquing my reasoning process while digging up old debates on a completely unrelated topic.

I have a B.A. in Philosophy but I don't think I'd ever use a phrase like "epistemic paradigm prevalent on this forum."

Anyway, I have no interest in this type of discussion. My original question was answered.

32

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Robertm394 wrote:

Posts like this are why I don't visit this forum much anymore.

Here I am asking a very straightforward question about firmware updates, and you write a 3 paragraph diatribe critiquing my reasoning process while digging up old debates on a completely unrelated topic.

It seems to me that you are reading my post the wrong way.

It seemed to me like you did not expect the responses you received to your original question. Thus, I tried to explain to you how the content of your previous post could inspire such answers to a straightforward question.

While it did indeed contain a critique of the content of (some of) your posts, that does not make it a diatribe. I can see that some of my previous responses to you might have been unnecessarily strident and based on an unfavourable reading of your posts. However, my last response to you was indeed in good faith.

Robertm394 wrote:

I have a B.A. in Philosophy but I don't think I'd ever use a phrase like "epistemic paradigm prevalent on this forum."

Well, you don't seem to have a PhD (yet)...

Robertm394 wrote:

  Anyway, I have no interest in this type of discussion. My original question was answered.

If you don't have anymore to say about this, let's leave it at that.

33 (edited by Jas0_0 2019-06-25 07:33:35)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

This forum is quite annoying at times.  I know there are lots of different nationalities here and English is not always a first language, so things can get warped by translation.  But the tone is often condescending, and frequently becomes aggressive.  People seem to be more interested in appearing intelligent than helping each other.  This should be a safe and easy place to ask questions about RME’s products without fearing ridicule.  As a new user I found it really off putting, and I don’t think it helps RME’s cause.

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

+1

Roon > RME ADI-2 DAC FS > Nord Three 1ET400A ST > Focal Aria 936

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

@Jas0_0
agree

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Very annoying is also deleting upright and factual posts.....

37 (edited by hhrvoje 2019-06-26 10:20:46)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Pitrs wrote:

Complete nonsense. ADI-2 xxx IS preamp. Adding another one is fully meaningless. It only adds fully useless additional distortion to the signal. It is not about personal tastes, it is just a simple and logical fact.

Just to get back to this before you continue on Firmware update. My 2c on trying different preamp.

I tried RME as a preamp, instead of my Primaluna tube preamp. Its OK, but far far from dedicated hi quality preamp like Prima, which is more musical, engaging, natural (vocals, mids), dynamic, more details, better hi and low extremes (specially upper range! Hi hats sound more realistic compared to RME). Power amp is Nord Acoustics NC500 revD (Hypex class D) with Focal 1028be speakers.

Prima costs like 2 RMEs, so would be strange if it doesn't sound better. But as a DAC, I couldn't find anything better in 2x price range of RME (tried just few, but still)...

~~ sound sommelier ~~

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Wow!   The Prima seems to have the Miraculous Ability to "find" information that allegedly wasn't present with the RME as a Standalone Pre.   Yet with the Prima added to the Signal Path...The Heavens burst forth in Glorious Musicality.  .This represents an Astonishing Breakthrough in Audio Science!   smile

Does Prima offer similarily Magical Cables too?

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

hhrvoje wrote:
Pitrs wrote:

Complete nonsense. ADI-2 xxx IS preamp. Adding another one is fully meaningless. It only adds fully useless additional distortion to the signal. It is not about personal tastes, it is just a simple and logical fact.

Just to get back to this before you continue on Firmware update. My 2c on trying different preamp.

I tried RME as a preamp, instead of my Primaluna tube preamp. Its OK, but far far from dedicated hi quality preamp like Prima, which is more musical, engaging, natural (vocals, mids), dynamic, more details, better hi and low extremes (specially upper range! Hi hats sound more realistic compared to RME). Power amp is Nord Acoustics NC500 revD (Hypex class D) with Focal 1028be speakers.

Prima costs like 2 RMEs, so would be strange if it doesn't sound better. But as a DAC, I couldn't find anything better in 2x price range of RME (tried just few, but still)...

I agree.  I tried removing my Croft pre from the chain and used the RME as a pre into a Croft power amp.  I really wanted to like it because selling the Croft pre would have saved me about £700 that I could have put into other parts of my system.  The result with RME as pre was more detailed with better attack, but it was also flatter, less tonally saturated, less three-dimensional and less dynamically interesting, so the Croft pre stayed.

I am open to the idea that what I heard was colouration, but it was colouration that made my music sound better to me, which is all that really matters.

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Curt962 wrote:

Wow!   The Prima seems to have the Miraculous Ability to "find" information that allegedly wasn't present with the RME as a Standalone Pre.   Yet with the Prima added to the Signal Path...The Heavens burst forth in Glorious Musicality.  .This represents an Astonishing Breakthrough in Audio Science!   smile

Does Prima offer similarily Magical Cables too?

This is just the type of condescending boorishness that I was referring to above.

41 (edited by N00b 2019-06-26 16:38:30)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Jas0_0 wrote:
Curt962 wrote:

Wow!   The Prima seems to have the Miraculous Ability to "find" information that allegedly wasn't present with the RME as a Standalone Pre.   Yet with the Prima added to the Signal Path...The Heavens burst forth in Glorious Musicality.  .This represents an Astonishing Breakthrough in Audio Science!   smile

Does Prima offer similarily Magical Cables too?

This is just the type of condescending boorishness that I was referring to above.

You must understand that you are not in an audiophile place. People here are professionnals and/or have a big technical background.

Curt962 is ironic, but if you think about it... The RME ADI-2 DAC is close to perfection in terms of sound quality: it is top of the art converter, and it handles the volume in a very clever way.

So how can a preamp attached to the RME can improve sound quality? Do you think that the RME degrades SQ when it handles the volume?
It is perfect at 0 dB and crap at -20 dB? Please read the ADI-2 DAC manual on page 63: you will have the technical explanation that it is not the case.
Or do you think you like the distortion added by the tube preamp? Maybe you can like it, but "more [...] natural, dynamic, more details, better hi and low extremes" and other idiophile's BS, that just doesn't make sense... A preamp can't guess or "enhance" or add information to the signal (distortion excepted), it's just facts and logic...

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

42 (edited by Curt962 2019-06-26 17:07:45)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Really,  I meant nothing "Condescending, nor Boorish.   Rather, I am very familiar with  Tube Colorations, and how entertaining they can be.  In the Short Term.    But...devices that contribute such Colorations should not in any way be confused with Accurate.   FX Processors is perhaps a more fitting description, and whose Audio Attributes are best suited for discussion on a "Hi Fi Toys" Forum. 

That's all.

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Are you serious @noob and @Curt962? You really think that
1) RME DAC is best D/A converter AND preamp because it measures well? How do you measure something like stage depth and width, details, timbar, or musicality?
2) is there something like perfect amplification equipment?
3) did you actually hear any other piece of gear, other DAC? RME is great dac for up to ~1500-2000$, but can't compare against most more expensive dacs, specially preamps
4) preamp section of RME which costs X is same as Prmas pre which costs X*5? Prima measures much worse in terms of THD, linearity, ..., since its tube pre, but how come it sounds better then?
5) are you, like 10?

~~ sound sommelier ~~

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Curt962 wrote:

Really,  I meant nothing "Condescending, nor Boorish.   Rather, I am very familiar with  Tube Colorations, and how entertaining they can be.  In the Short Term.    But...devices that contribute such Colorations should not in any way be confused with Accurate.   FX Processors is perhaps a more fitting description, and whose Audio Attributes are best suited for discussion on an I-Pod Forum. 

That's all.

Well said except  whose Audio Attributes are best suited for discussion on an I-Pod Forum.  That is condescending again. It is perfectly acceptable and enjoyable to talk about how you use and enjoy your ADI2's (to me).

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

Im just pretty sure that those who think that tubes are adding to "colorations" didn't hear proper tube gear. Expect if "natural" sound means "coloration" because it doesn't sound, well, digital? I mean, everything adds to coloration, specially today's digital equipment. Every transistor, capacitor, coil, wire, tube, will change something in the sound, so perfect accurate equipment doesn't exists.   
Some of the world best sound system today will have a tube in the playback chain. For mixing/producing probably not because it doesn't make sense, but mastering and home hifi, for sure.

~~ sound sommelier ~~

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

https://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/markingersoll/Web/smileys/popcorn.gif?width=250&height=250&crop=1:1,smart

47 (edited by Jas0_0 2019-06-26 20:19:14)

Re: Firmware Update side tracked

N00b wrote:

You must understand that you are not in an audiophile place. People here are professionnals and/or have a big technical background.

I'm not sure that's quite true.  In creating the ADI-2 DAC with a remote control, I'm guessing RME was targeting both a professional and an audiophile market, and since this place is called the 'RME User Forum', it follows that it was created to serve all these different client types. 

I think most people are here because they really like their RME products and are trying to learn how to get the most out of them, or are making suggestions about how they could be improved.  I see no reason why either professional users or audiophile users should claim that this forum is theirs.  In doing so I think it might scare off would-be users, hurting RME's sales and damaging its brand.  There are far more audio consumers out there than there are audio professionals, and this represents a huge sales opportunity for RME.  More sales means more R&D money, which means better products for everyone.

I guess it might be frustrating for people with a lot of technical knowledge to see consumers coming on here and asking what they see as stupid questions or making what they see as stupid suggestions.  However, not everyone sits in a treated studio when they listen to music via an RME product, not all music is well recorded and one person's exciting is another's harsh.  So while 100% accuracy might seem like Nirvana, for some people's listening environments, music and ears, it might sound awful.

I think it would be great if everyone just calmed down a bit, stopped insulting each other, understood that not everyone is like them, helped each other and, in doing so, helped RME continue creating its great products.

And I now have more important things to do - principally installing the latest firmware update for my excellent RME ADI-2 Pro FS.