1

Topic: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

No matter if for mobile usage, measurement applications or High-End listening experience, there is demand for battery operation of Fireface UC, Babyface Pro, ADI-2 Pro and other RME units that are or can be powered by an external 12 V power supply. Let me give two tips on how to achieve this with the biggest ease, comfort and best real-world results.

It seems not well known that the popular (and cheap) powerbanks, rechargable 5V batteries with USB port(s), are also available in versions having a 12V output. Based on 3.7V Li-Ion or LiPo batteries, which do not suffer from memory effects and deliver a lot of power at lowest space and weight, an internal switching power supply circuit not only ups the voltage to 5 Volts, but also to 12 Volts. A recommendation based on personal experience is the XTPower XT-20000QC2:

https://www.amazon.de/XTPower%C2%AE-XT- … B07PY8516W

(Note: Link now points to the newer QC3 version)

This powerbank is quite amazing, and works flawlessly with the ADI-2 Pro or any other 12V operated RME interface. I'm sure the smaller version available (15,600 mAh) does as well.

This powerbank is compact and not too heavy. It has some really nice features: two USB ports which are fully compatible to Apple (both charged my iPad with 2.1 A), one of both also supports Quick Charge 2 (Android). One standard DC output for 12 up to 24 V, adjustable. It can provide a lot of power (65 W). The ADI-2 Pro, playing music to a headphone, played exactly 5 hours. The LCD tells you how much Watts are currently drawn (between 12.5 and 14 with the ADI-2 Pro), what output voltage is selected (I chose 12V), and how much juice is left (switched itself off shortly after 0% was shown). The display is more accurate than I expected, for both state and power measurement.

I also measured the quality of the 12V output. The lower voltage of the internal LiPos is processed by some step-up regulator to 12, 16.5, 19, 20, or 24 V. On my older 10,000 mAh powerbank I can clearly see the switching frequency as needle within a spectrum measurement. This newer 20,000 mAh version either has a better stepup regulator or better filtering - there is no switching needle visible at all.

Finally this powerbank can not only be charged via 5V mini USB (which takes some time), but also backwards via the DC output. The optional power supply charges it with up to 30 W (also displayed on the LCD) via 20V and 2A, so charging takes about 2.5 hours only.

Yes, latest technology can be quite amazing, and this powerbank also is extremely flexible in overall usage, clearly worth the money asked.

Let's put away all the nice flexibility and additional features in my second recommendation, concentrating on the pure battery functionality. The powerbank uses an internal step-up switching regulator to turn 3.7V into 12V. There are two (minor) drawbacks: the regulator needs some energy on its own, and the DC output is not 100% clean, as you would expect it from a real battery. The solution here is to use the same technology as in the powerbank, modern Li-Ion cells, but connected in series to raise the voltage. In a so called 3S2P configuration the popular 18650 cells will deliver between 12.6 Volts (fully charged) and 9 Volt (discharged). Typical voltage provided is 11.1 Volt.

In the 3S2P configuration 3 cells are connected in series for higher voltage, and another 3 in parallel to double the available power. The total power of such a small block of cells is astonishing. Don't get fooled by comparing the powerbank's 20,000 mAh with their 6,900 mAh - one refers to 3.7V, the other one to 11.1V. For a valid comparison use the Watts per hour value, where both provide nearly the same - around 70 Wh.

I got my 3S2P block from here:

https://enerprof.de/akkus/li-ion-akkus- … -3x2?c=22/

As you can read here the block already comes with overvoltage, undervoltage and short-circuit protection. To connect it to an RME unit one can buy a pre-made cable like this one

https://www.amazon.de/Anschluss-Anschlu … B079J95WND

or make one yourself with the lockable connector on one end. This battery gives the purest, clean power possible, cost less than half of the above powerbank, is even more small and light weight, and amazingly powerful. The same headphone test with ADI-2 Pro described above caused the battery to reach 10.0V after 4 hours and 15 minutes of operation. After 5 hours and 17 minutes the battery was down to 9.3V and the ADI-2 Pro switched off audio. Until then the ADI-2 Pro, consuming about 12 Watts, had worked perfectly. A Babyface Pro would run more than double that time!

A quick (and cheap) charger for the 3S2P is also available:

https://enerprof.de/ladegeraete/ladeger … -8v-11-1v/

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

I am not a good photographer, but wanted to show at least one pic of all the above stuff. Here you see an iPad used as music player (running Neutron, which can play back nearly everything, with the ADI-2 Pro even 768 kHz and DSD256). The latest Apple USB3 to Lightning adapter not only connects it Class Compliant to the left ADI-2 Pro AE, but also allows it to be charged at the same time from the XTPower powerbank. Here the powerbank simultaneously provides 12 Volt to the AE, easily giving power to two very different devices.

The ADI-2 Pro to the right gets audio via SPDIF from the AE. It is powered by the 3S2P Li-Ion battery block as explained above.

http://archiv.rme-audio.de/img/12v_examples.jpg

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

looks nice

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

4 (edited by knuckle47 2017-07-22 15:40:22)

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

Quick note to say Thank you MC for the recommendation for the XT Power source. Got mine today , charged it up ...works perfectly with enough flexible options to cover nearly any need

Thank you again MC

EDIT: July 22, 2017.    I've been using this supply for a few weeks now.  I can only once again say it is fantastic. If you have a need for it I don't think you'll be disappointed.  I've used it for the phone, iPad, Babyface Pro and even a few of my grandsons toddler type electronics.

Babyface Pro, UFX+ via Thunderbolt, Win 10, Cubase 9.5 Pro, Asus Z270 i7700k Guitarist-1961

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

Thanks for the info MC! Just ordered the xt power pack.

_

RME HDSP9652 | | RME Digiface USB

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

MC wrote:

I am not a good photographer, but wanted to show at least one pic of all the above stuff. Here you see an iPad used as music player (running Neutron, which can play back nearly everything, with the ADI-2 Pro even 768 kHz and DSD256). The latest Apple USB3 to Lightning adapter not only connects it Class Compliant to the left ADI-2 Pro AE, but also allows it to be charged at the same time from the XTPower powerbank. Here the powerbank simultaneously provides 12 Volt to the AE, easily giving power to two very different devices.

The ADI-2 Pro to the right gets audio via SPDIF from the AE. It is powered by the 3S2P Li-Ion battery block as explained above.

When they say "a picture's worth a thousand words", that's still right today, in a mostly-image-dominated world.

Even if you had skipped the picture (which helps to make it all clearer, and faster), your post made my day, and evening: it contains the tip I've been looking for, in the never-ending quest for quality audio against the (often sad) statement "but they won't use a computer, only a tablet".

Even if to power up a big PA requires 3-phase AC mains, therefore running on battery doesn't look like much of a goal to me, there's a whole lot of lazy kids out there who pride themselves with running only one 50m AES/EBU cable inside a cable duct, and no AC mains cable. Beats me why... but going with age, I'm starting at least to take things in despite my personal view on the matter.

Now, for the useful stuff: when will I learn to spend some time snooping around the forum threads, instead of just connecting here when I've got a problem at hand and am trying to solve it? Always too late, is my answer.

This sharing willingness, this being-of-service mindframe of yours, is alone worth the whole value of any RME product I've ever bought, no matter how expensive or affordable. And it makes all the difference in the world, in terms of loyalty: I'll fight for the model, what model, not for the make. And I know I'm not alone in this, I'm with the best possible company.

Honest and simple: thank you, MC.

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Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

You're welcome. And I kid you not: I already own 4 of the XTs, 3 in my lab, one for personal use. Killer product! And nice that they named it 20,000, which is the max amount of powerbank capacity allowed on flights. Never made a problem smile

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

MC wrote:

You're welcome. And I kid you not: I already own 4 of the XTs, 3 in my lab, one for personal use. Killer product! And nice that they named it 20,000, which is the max amount of powerbank capacity allowed on flights. Never made a problem smile

In terms of flight .. Oh good to know, I wondered already why you didnt pick a bigger one wink

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

Mines still going strong.. also use it for an extra power bank for my ms surface pro 4..
Brilliant product! I Appreciate the recommendation!

_

RME HDSP9652 | | RME Digiface USB

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

I purchased the XT Power 20,000 to run my Babyface (not Pro) with my iPad and the DC wire and adapters that are included in the package do not seem to fit the Babyface. Is there and adapter connector or wire that will fix this?

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Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

Do not 'seem'? The cable and at least one adapter fit my Babyface.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

The Babyface does not power on with the included DC wire or any of the DC adapters. I read on another forum that the required DC adapter size is 1.25mm and the XT Power's user manual does not have 1.25mm as one of the included adapter sizes. The included DC wire from XT powers other interfaces I have but not the Babyface.

13

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

Did you ever try this with a normal power supply? You might need to attach USB bus power for the BF to wake up.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

What differences in audio recording quality do you notice with a Babyface Pro running off of bus power from a plugged-in MacBook Pro, vs. unplugged MacBook Pro, vs. the power bank, vs. the 3S2P battery pack? How significant is each step? I have run unplugged with bus power in the past when using a different Firewire audio interface, and it was a noticeable improvement, but I'm curious how much improvement could be made by trying a powerbank, and whether or not it's worth the hassle to ditch all convenience and go all the way to the battery pack.

15

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

Except for ground-loop related changes the use (and quality) of the power supply has no influence on the BF Pro. Its internal switched power supply eats whatever you throw at it and turns it into smooth, clean DC.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

Thank you. It's seemed pretty freakin' clean so far!

So ultimately, the only benefit that I would see would be if I were running the MacBook on battery power and trying to limit battery drain on the MacBook itself. I did read something about someone else having improved microphone performance when using phantom power, but that's not really an issue for my use case. Sweet. Thank you.

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

Hi, do you think this could be a valid alternative ?
It's very cheap

https://www.ebay.it/itm/12V-20000mAh-Ba … 2961109524


Product Description

This Rechargeable battery is a 12V 20000mah Li-ion Battery and it is specially designed for powering the system device

which use 12V DC power. You can use this battery to power our powerful wireless transmitter, CCTV camera and so on.

Suitable for your need. Super storage capacity. With working indicator. Specially designed for the system devices

which use 12V power. Built-in ON/OFF switch to save power usage. Large mah value means long battery life.

Over-charge/discharge protection.


Battery Charging Method

Open the battery switch to the "ON" at the red light on the charger indicates when charging starts (if battery is full charge,

the power green light will remain unchanged); charging time is generally more than 8 hours; until the plug's red light becomes green,

the battery is fully charged.

Note

pls trun on the switch when charge for this item.And if you want to measure the voltage,suggest using pointer multimeter.

Because digital measure table easily jump table.

In order to use the safety battery, combined with factory production, the actual capacity will be less.


Specification

Size:155*75*40mm(battery)

Color: Blue

Capacity: 20000mAh.

Battery type: Rechargeable Li-on battery.

Input voltage: 12.6V

Output voltage: 10.8~12.6 DC

Output current:1-2A

Line interface specification 5.5 * 2.1 MM

Product life: circulation charge and discharge more than 500 times


Package include

1X 12V 20000mah Li-ion Battery

1X EU plug

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Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

Looks like there's two versions of that XTPower power brick on Amazon, one with automatic shutoff, and another (newer?) one that stays on unless powered off.

Automatic Shutoff:
(...forum software won't allow two links???...)

No Automatic Shutoff (stays on until powered off):
https://www.amazon.com/XTPower-XT-20000 … T-20000QC2

Which is best for working with the Babyface?  I would guess the 'No Automatic Shutoff' version?

19

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

The automatic shut-off one will not shut off with a Babyface connected. The no shut-off one is useful for low power devices below 2 Watts. At least this is my experience with the former auto shut-off version.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

MC wrote:

In the 3S2P configuration 3 cells are connected in series for higher voltage, and another 3 in parallel to double the available power. The total power of such a small block of cells is astonishing. Don't get fooled by comparing the powerbank's 20,000 mAh with their 6,900 mAh - one refers to 3.7V, the other one to 11.1V. For a valid comparison use the Watts per hour value, where both provide nearly the same - around 70 Wh.

I got my 3S2P block from here:

http://enerprof.de/shop/batteries/enerp … d-plug-dc/

As you can read here the block already comes with overvoltage, undervoltage and short-circuit protection. To connect it to an RME unit one can buy a pre-made cable like this one

https://www.amazon.de/Anschluss-Anschlu … B079J95WND

or make one yourself with the lockable connector on one end. This battery gives the purest, clean power possible, cost less than half of the above powerbank, is even more small and light weight, and amazingly powerful. The same headphone test with ADI-2 Pro described above caused the battery to reach 10.0V after 4 hours and 15 minutes of operation. After 5 hours and 17 minutes the battery was down to 9.3V and the ADI-2 Pro switched off audio. Until then the ADI-2 Pro, consuming about 12 Watts, had worked perfectly. A Babyface Pro would run more than double that time!

I would definitely prefer a straight battery over one that uses electronics to step-up (or down) the voltage. From my understanding, one of the advantages of batteries is their low internal resistance, and electronics will definitely mess with that.

Looking at the 3S2P suggestion, how long would it last for a RME ADI-2 DAC without use of any headphones, as pure preamp/DAC connected to a power amp?

21

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

No headphone and AutoDark mode on would reach about 6 hours with that Li-Ion pack.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

22 (edited by MagnusH 2019-03-03 22:06:57)

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

MC wrote:

No headphone and AutoDark mode on would reach about 6 hours with that Li-Ion pack.

Cheers, so something like 20Ah to last 16 hours. I read somewhere that LiFePo4 has lowest internal resistance, so something like this should work, just need to make sure its not drained below 11V: https://www.ev-power.eu/LiFeYPO4-batter … -20Ah.html

Btw, its not as big as it looks, more like a very thick book.

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

MC wrote:

and how much juice is left (switched itself off shortly after 0% was shown)

You leave me confused. On one hand, the ADI-2 DAC has a special power jack with a special power plug in the stock PSU that latches and locks with a 90 degree twist, which I guess is a way to make sure that it's not disconnected accidentally. On the other hand you are recommending an external power supply for this device which, not surprisingly, just switches off once depleted, which is pretty much the same as disconnecting the power source while the ADI-2 DAC is running. And even if the powerbank had some acoustic signal, I guess listening with headphones won't help much.

Why go to lengths to use a special power connector and then run the device through a powerbank that's much more likely to stop providing power abruptly? Am I missing something here?

24

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

Yes, tons of. HiFi users that just want to try it. Technicians with special measurement requirements that need it. Mobile usage. And more. I also see zero problem when the battery gets near 0% after many hours and switches off. Why is that a problem at all?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

It's not a problem for me either. I just thought there must be a good reason why RME added the locking power connector to the ADI-2 DAC, and running the unit from a power source that might shut off just like that would defeat the purpose. Or maybe you could enlighten me why else RME would go to such lengths to add this very uncommon connector.

26

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

In professional applications a sliding out power cable is no good thing. When using a battery a limited operating time is expected.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

Ok, thanks, now I understand.

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

Archimago did some measurements comparing battery-power to the standard power supply. They show what has been pointed out several times: It does not really matter, except you need mobility.

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/07/m … plies.html

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

Thank you MC and all contributing! You just made my life easier smile

30 (edited by DACuser 2020-07-19 22:34:41)

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

MC wrote:

...

In the 3S2P configuration 3 cells are connected in series for higher voltage, and another 3 in parallel to double the available power. The total power of such a small block of cells is astonishing. Don't get fooled by comparing the powerbank's 20,000 mAh with their 6,900 mAh - one refers to 3.7V, the other one to 11.1V. For a valid comparison use the Watts per hour value, where both provide nearly the same - around 70 Wh.

I got my 3S2P block from here:

enerprof.de/shop/batteries/enerpower-3s2p-battery-10-8v-11-1v-6900mah-li-ion-with-round-plug-dc/

As you can read here the block already comes with overvoltage, undervoltage and short-circuit protection. To connect it to an RME unit one can buy a pre-made cable like this one
amazon.de/Anschluss-Anschlusskabel-M%C3%A4nnlich-Strom-Kabel/dp/B079J95WND

or make one yourself with the lockable connector on one end. This battery gives the purest, clean power possible, cost less than half of the above powerbank, is even more small and light weight, and amazingly powerful. The same headphone test with ADI-2 Pro described above caused the battery to reach 10.0V after 4 hours and 15 minutes of operation. After 5 hours and 17 minutes the battery was down to 9.3V and the ADI-2 Pro switched off audio. Until then the ADI-2 Pro, consuming about 12 Watts, had worked perfectly. A Babyface Pro would run more than double that time!

A quick (and cheap) charger for the 3S2P is also available:

enerprof.de/shop/chargers/enerpower-3s-12-6v-li-ion-charger-2a-with-round-plug/

Updated links on date of this post:

3S2P:
https://enerprof.de/akkus/li-ion-akkus- … r-3x2?c=22

Charger:
https://enerprof.de/ladegeraete/ladeger … ecker?c=27

This pack seems to lack the possibility of balancing the cells, which is a pity because I have a digital charger with many cell balancing connectors. Still considering to buy.

It is possible that this pack carries it's very own balancing circuit, but it is not stated as such, so I wonder.

31

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

Active balancing means switching electronics that destroy the advantage of this pack to act (and measure) excactly like a perfect battery - so I was told. I see this as a plus, not a minus. I am not a battery expert but it seems such balancing is not necessary with these small packs made from quality cells.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

32 (edited by DACuser 2020-07-20 12:51:18)

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

MC wrote:

Active balancing means switching electronics that destroy the advantage of this pack to act (and measure) excactly like a perfect battery - so I was told. I see this is a plus, not a minus. I am not a battery expert but it seems such balancing is not necessary with these small packs made from quality cells.

This is their response to my question for a balancing feature:

"der Akku hat eine Schutzschaltung und daher braucht der kein externer Balancer Kabel"

So they suggest that the protection circuit makes external balancing obsolete. It does not state that their protective circuit has or has not a balancing incorporated after all, we can only assume that it has one besides the over- and under charge protection, that would be good engineering.

We can only hope that they did a good job matching the cells. Also that the protection circuit present does not take away anything from the batteries main advantage of a super stable output, if a balancer would concern you in that matter. I'd suppose the output to be very clean no matter what kind of circuit is taking guard.

It seems they now have a version with a mini charge indicator for near 10 euro extra:
https://enerprof.de/en/rechargeable-bat … gauge?c=22
But no charge indicator for the 10Ah version (yet?), I like the idea of 10Ah.

PS: forum relevant topic: 12V DC lockable connector.

33 (edited by Viennacalling 2020-09-06 06:40:39)

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

I have 4 of them
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07Q29 … &psc=1

2 have good quality and 2 are draining power even it is stored in  the shelf without anything plugged on or it is turned on.

So check this out, to replace a broken unit during warranty.

It should not loss more than 1 percent in 3 weeks if not used.

Adi-2 Pro, Adi-2 Dac Fs

34

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

That's about what I see too. Please note this might not be the battery discharging itself. The unit does not have a power switch, but an electronic standby circuit to control power on/off. So a little bit of discharging is expected. And the electronics might have changed over time. To verify these 2 have less performance you could check the capacity and compare it with the other 2.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

35 (edited by VasilySizov 2020-09-18 22:19:10)

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

Folks, just wanted to mention that I purchased and tested SinKeu 24000mAh - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P87JTVT
Works like a charm.

It has both an integrated AC inverter (can be handy if you need to charge your laptop) and 12V DC output, which goes with no voltage regulator as I understand (they mention in the manual that depending on whether the battery is charged, it delivers voltage between 12.6V and 9V).

I've tested it with my ADI-2 Pro FS, and it lasted exactly full 5 hours.

One note though, the DC power cable doesn't come with it, so you need to order one. I bought this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016BJGZ2U

Hope it helps.

36 (edited by heinzgruber 2021-04-14 17:28:58)

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

I bought the XTPower Powerbank from the first post for my ADI-2 DAC FS (consume 6-8 watt). Works like a charm and the power-bank last about seven hours!

37

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

VasilySizov wrote:

Folks, just wanted to mention that I purchased and tested SinKeu 24000mAh - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P87JTVT
Works like a charm.

It has both an integrated AC inverter (can be handy if you need to charge your laptop) and 12V DC output, which goes with no voltage regulator as I understand (they mention in the manual that depending on whether the battery is charged, it delivers voltage between 12.6V and 9V).

I've tested it with my ADI-2 Pro FS, and it lasted exactly full 5 hours.

Thanks for this interesting product report. You just forgot to mention that it's 110 V only. Many readers here would need the same as 230 V. Someone got that?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

38 (edited by Happy_amateur 2022-06-15 10:11:30)

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

Another stupid question: Could you just connect the device to a 12v car battery. Would you need some limiting, safety curcuits. Is there a limit to the amps you should apply from a battery or does the ADI draw just the current it needs.

A teorethical question. Not gonna try this

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

39

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

But you can - it will work without issues.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

Thnx MC! Just curious about that, my electrical skills are bit limited. Im actually scoping for a battery like the one you metioned in the topic or the next bigger size.

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

Im dissapointed to say that XT dont ship to Norway due to "disposal guidelines for lithium batteries" First they said they could, then they couldnt sad

Like we cannot dispose of it here in Norway. We just put it on a frozen lake in the winter like every other garbage. When spring comes its gone.. Duh!

Off to another solution!

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: 12 V Battery Power Solutions

Hello, I've just started to use a Yuasa 12V 7a lead acid battery, linked with a Diy OFC 5N cable. The changes are evident.
I'm a 3 years Adi2 fs owner.
Happy trying!