Topic: ADI-2 Outputs setting for Hi-fi Amp

Hi there !

Just would like to know what are the best output settings to go from the ADI-2 DAC Cinch directly in a HI-Fi Power Amplifier.

I have +7db but it seems that I could normally have -10db... In this case how to proceed ?

Thanks for help

Drop the Bass ! House your body !

Re: ADI-2 Outputs setting for Hi-fi Amp

dr.flow wrote:

Hi there !

Just would like to know what are the best output settings to go from the ADI-2 DAC Cinch directly in a HI-Fi Power Amplifier.

I have +7db but it seems that I could normally have -10db... In this case how to proceed ?

Thanks for help

For an integrated amplifier, I would follow the manual (page 62).

For a power amplifier, I would set the ADI-2 DAC on Auto-Vol REF and let the RME device do the math for you: the unit will automatically switch between the different hardware levels depending on the volume you set smile

ADI-2 DAC - Neumann KH 310 A monitors

3 (edited by dr.flow 2019-09-10 11:32:04)

Re: ADI-2 Outputs setting for Hi-fi Amp

Many thanks ;-)

Using my Dynaudio Monitors with XLR it auto adjusts the outputs to -5db.

I use both, depending in which room I am, so one time with the XLR to the amplified speakers and for pleasure listening...
RCA to the Hi-fi !

Have a nice day

Drop the Bass ! House your body !

Re: ADI-2 Outputs setting for Hi-fi Amp

Per Noob's suggestion, I wholeheartedly agree!   Auto-Ref is your Friend!!! 

Curt

5 (edited by ramses 2019-09-10 18:34:27)

Re: ADI-2 Outputs setting for Hi-fi Amp

Also required for dynamic loudness if you use this feature.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Cubase 9.5, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: ADI-2 Outputs setting for Hi-fi Amp

ramses wrote:

Also required for dynamic loudness if you use this feature.

If you use only one hardware level and use the volume knob, dynamic loudness works just fine without auto-vol ref... It's a shame because with auto-vol-ref you optimize the dynamic, but I don't understand why you say auto vol ref is "reqired" to use the dynamic loudness?

Of course if you change hardware level and volume knob, auto-vol-ref is required for dynamic loudness, but if you use only one hardware level, it's ok for me.

ADI-2 DAC - Neumann KH 310 A monitors

Re: ADI-2 Outputs setting for Hi-fi Amp

This has always confused me a bit.  My configuration is:  the ADI-2 Dac is feeding an integrated amp.  This particular amp does not have a remote control for volume, so I exclusively use the ADI-2 DAC, for volume  adjustments----it's just a convenience for me.

Right now I have the ADI-2 set up the following way:

Loudness:  Enabled/on
                 Low volume ref -25 db

I find things start to get a bit loud when the ADI-2 volume setting gets to be around -5 db. Would the above be a good low volume ref setting?

In addition, I have these settings:

Ref level:        +7 dbu
Auto ref level:  ON

Since I don't change the volume level on the integrated amp, is having the auto ref level set to "ON" still a good thing/necessary?  If using the auto ref level function is, in my case, either not advised or unnecessary,, is the +7 dbu setting appropriate (this is what the manual seems to recommend).

Re: ADI-2 Outputs setting for Hi-fi Amp

I read it somewhere in the manual, not sure whether its different in different use cases, thought not.
I though it is related to the fact that with decreasing signal it becomes louder by dynamic loudness and
thought that auto ref level compensates to again find the ideal output level.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Cubase 9.5, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

9 (edited by N00b 2019-09-10 21:51:48)

Re: ADI-2 Outputs setting for Hi-fi Amp

ramses wrote:

I read it somewhere in the manual, not sure whether its different in different use cases, thought not.
I though it is related to the fact that with decreasing signal it becomes louder by dynamic loudness and
thought that auto ref level compensates to again find the ideal output level.

Indeed! Auto ref level mode allows you to always stay in the optimal zone of the DAC dynamic, by switching automatically between the 4 different hardware levels.

https://reho.st/self/318b803b5c730cd853e879473908508841547da5.png

The Auto ref level is the path in the coloured cells smile
The volume setting displayed by the unit (with Auto ref level mode enabled) is on the left (dBr).

The dBu are dispayed for unbalanced output (+6 dB for balanced one).

So possible to use Dynamic loudness without Auto ref level mode (you stay in one of the spreadsheet column), but you don't optimize the DAC dynamic because too much attenuation is not good (you could have noise) smile
Better to be -6 dB at -5 dBu than -24 db at 13 dBu.

ADI-2 DAC - Neumann KH 310 A monitors

Re: ADI-2 Outputs setting for Hi-fi Amp

rpgroman wrote:

This has always confused me a bit.  My configuration is:  the ADI-2 Dac is feeding an integrated amp.  This particular amp does not have a remote control for volume, so I exclusively use the ADI-2 DAC, for volume  adjustments----it's just a convenience for me.

Right now I have the ADI-2 set up the following way:

Loudness:  Enabled/on
                 Low volume ref -25 db

I find things start to get a bit loud when the ADI-2 volume setting gets to be around -5 db. Would the above be a good low volume ref setting?

In addition, I have these settings:

Ref level:        +7 dbu
Auto ref level:  ON

Since I don't change the volume level on the integrated amp, is having the auto ref level set to "ON" still a good thing/necessary?  If using the auto ref level function is, in my case, either not advised or unnecessary,, is the +7 dbu setting appropriate (this is what the manual seems to recommend).

As soon as you handle the volume on the ADI-2 DAC, use auto ref level wink

ADI-2 DAC - Neumann KH 310 A monitors

11 (edited by Curt962 2019-09-10 22:58:23)

Re: ADI-2 Outputs setting for Hi-fi Amp

RPgroman,

If things are getting crazy loud at -5db...just use a bit less volume, and set your Low Vol Ref 20db BELOW THAT as per the User Manual.   Use your "norm" vol as as a starting point.  No need to continually reset this on a hourly basis.  smile

I find myself most often listening at approx -10.   My Low Vol Ref (not the same as auto-ref) is simply set 20db below that.   Been like that for months.  No need to change. 

Note that not all recordings are precisely at the same loudness.  Hardly!!   What is LOUD on one recording seems barely audible on the next.  You can thank the "Loudness Wars" for that BS.

RP?  Note how much LOWER you must set Volume for your Justin Bieber recordings vs that for your Shostakovitch Collection..
smile

We went through this whole shebang 6 months ago.

This should not be a Science,.Technology, Engineering, and Math exercise for any user.   The elegantly streamlined RME system works wonderfully, and PRECISELY as stated in the Manual.  Let's read those Manuals....

Deep Breaths...all of you....you can do this!  smile smile smile

Curt

PS:   I think the terms "Auto Ref", and "Low Vol Ref" are being confused, and used interchangeably...which they should not be. 
These two elements do in fact work together,.but they are NOT the same!

Re: ADI-2 Outputs setting for Hi-fi Amp

Curt,

Nah....not crazy loud at -5.  I have the integrated volume set so that when the RME volume is at 0, the music is really loud, but not painfully, so.  I usually find myself listening somewhere between -5 and -10, though Mahler often deserves a listen at 0, heheh. So, seems like the low volume setting I have at -25 is o.k...could possibly set it at -30 even.

Of course, you're quite right in that there are certainly variations between recordings.  Though, I use LMS's Smart Gain function which does a decent, though not perfect, job of eliminating most the widest swings between albums.

Yes, I understand that the auto ref and low volume ref are different animals.  And, between the manual and Noob's and your answers, I think I've got things straight, now.  Many thanks to you both.....

Re: ADI-2 Outputs setting for Hi-fi Amp

At home, crazy crazy loud at -5 dB if I listen to Justin Bieber (or Metallica), but « just » loud enough on certain part of Vivaldi’s sacred music...
So normal listening volume is  between -20 and -30 dB, and Low Vol Ref is at -45 dB. smile

ADI-2 DAC - Neumann KH 310 A monitors

Re: ADI-2 Outputs setting for Hi-fi Amp

Auto ref always on -5 using Dynaudio BM15 with XLR (rear switch in +4db) or RCA to the Hi-Fi Pre-amp.

The fact is that with -5 the Pre-amp volume knob (from "0 to 10" graduation) is for example at "3" when for example a CD player have the same output level less than "1" on the pre-amp volume knob !!!

Goal would be to connect directly the DAC to the AMP without Pre-amp... In the end will for sure sound at the best...

Drop the Bass ! House your body !

15 (edited by LITLGI74 2019-09-13 00:00:26)

Re: ADI-2 Outputs setting for Hi-fi Amp

So... To achieve the 2V standard discussed on page 62... when the analog output should operate like a typical HiFi unit @ 2 V output level
(equals +8 dBu), set the hardware Ref Level to +7 dBu and 0 dB volume.

Is this meant for RCA or XLR?

Should the hardware Ref Level be set to for +1 for XLR?

Thanks

16

Re: ADI-2 Outputs setting for Hi-fi Amp

LITLGI74 wrote:

So... To achieve the 2V standard discussed on page 62... when the analog output should operate like a typical HiFi unit @ 2 V output level
(equals +8 dBu), set the hardware Ref Level to +7 dBu and 0 dB volume.

Is this meant for RCA or XLR?

Should the hardware Ref Level be set to for +1 for XLR?

Thanks

It is in reference to RCA but XLR simply doubles the voltage, i.e. 2 V RMS from the RCA output corresponds to 4 V RMS from the XLR output. Both are typical for HiFi equipment and the reference level should therefore be the same.

17 (edited by firefly 2019-09-17 08:45:40)

Re: ADI-2 Outputs setting for Hi-fi Amp

I use the DAC as a preamplifier directly on my power amp and I never use the the dynamic loudness. In that case (volume control with no dynamic loudness), do you recommend to keep Auto Ref "On" (my power amp input sensibility is 0dBU O,760V) ?

Re: ADI-2 Outputs setting for Hi-fi Amp

firefly wrote:

I use the DAC as a preamplifier directly on my power amp and I never use the the dynamic loudness. In that case (volume control with no dynamic loudness), do you recommend to keep Auto Ref "On" (my power amp input sensibility is 0dBU O,760V) ?

Use Auto-Ref.  Period.

Why no Dynamic Loudness?   Unless your hearing is different than that of the rest of the Human Species, Dynamic Loudness is (or should be) valuable to you.   Re-read your User Manual for a re-review of the Thoroughly Vetted "Fletcher-Munson Loudness Contours" that involve Every Human that has ever lived. smile

Curt