1 (edited by Timur 2009-08-31 10:57:51)

Topic: How to interprete this display?

Hey everyone!

Please assist me interpreting the following readout. It's a byeffect of using Logic Pro 8's "Gain" Utility (it does not happen with Ableton Live's "Gain" Utility).

What I wonder about is: Is this DC? And if it is how can I identify it as such when DigiCheck makes no difference in its display? Maybe it would help if DigiCheck would color the 25 Hz bar in another color or lid an extra LED when DC is identified!?

Here is a screenshot demonstrating how a seemingly *empty* frequency spectrum produces ongoing +5.5 dB overs. I don't know what this would do to speakers or amplifiers, but I know that this setting shots down the OS X Realtek driver which needs a reboot to be repaired.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5042/logicgaindc.png

RME's DigiCheck is able to identify the signal in its 25 Hz spectrum, likely because DigiCheck includes DC in its 25 Hz bar (routed the Fireface's output back to its inputs in order to get a reading on OS X).

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3574/logicgaindcrme.png

By the way, this example shows a 200 dB gain-boost of a supposely *not existing* signal, namely the cancellation/inversion of two tracks. Why does it not cancel to 0 then? Because at *one* point of the signal chain there were +1 dB -1 dB gain applied!

Off course no one would hear the remaining artefacts anyway, but what about the crazy low frequency noise (DC?) there? Does it matter to you when you pump it out of a live PA system without any filter in between? Frankly, I lack experience with these matters.

2 (edited by Timur 2009-08-31 11:02:21)

Re: How to interprete this display?

One thing that makes me wonder is the display of what looks like harmonics on the Digicheck display.

Would these show up with DC?

Should the other Analyzer software (T-Racks Meter and Logic Multimeter) not be able to identify these as well, especially the Phase meter on the T-Racks which has a sensitivity going even lower than -144 dB?

3

Re: How to interprete this display?

You forgot the new Bit Statistic & Noise - with the dedicated DC meter to answer this question :-)

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: How to interprete this display?

Oops, must be because there was no helpfile on Bitstatistic & Noise in the OS X version. :-P

I'll check that right after lunch.

5

Re: How to interprete this display?

There is. Did you miss the 0.6 release? no:

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

6 (edited by Timur 2009-08-31 13:32:29)

Re: How to interprete this display?

I did install the 0.6, but was still displayed the 0.5 helpfile. Now it works and I found a typo (R in Errors missing): "Erros in the digital datastream" :-P

Anyway, thanks to your hint I indeed identified the 25 Hz band signal as pure DC offset eventhough I wonder how DC can over 0 dB?! I have to admit that my understanding of DC is still a bit limited.

That means that what looks like harmonics on the spectral analyzer would be the signal I was originally trying to measure: noise/rounding errors induced by digital floating-point gain-stages. I'm puzzled that the main energy shows on low frequency bands though.

7

Re: How to interprete this display?

What you see here is a simple calculation error, rounding or otherwise, at around -200 dB. Which you amplified by that amount.

DC can not be higher than 0 dB. What is the value shown in the Bit Stat?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: How to interprete this display?

Isn't Logic using 24-bit and 48-bit double precision fixed point
just wonder if this have anything to do with this "Gain Utility" ?

regards S-EH

9

Re: How to interprete this display?

Ok, we found the problem with the installer and why it starts the old help. I uploaded a new file (silent update) that fixes this problem. Thanks a lot!

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME